Hair Removal
Wiki Index
The main site for hair removal on Internet is hairtell.com and its associated site hairfacts.com, but its seems underutilized used by trans people and I think something more focussed on our needs would be helpful.
Overview
FTM
FTM doing phalloplasty use hair removal.
YouTube
https://www.phallo.net/hair-removal-phalloplasty.htm
MTF
Face, body hair, genital region prior to surgery.
The surgery wiki contains information on genital hair removal.
YouTube
Papers
Face
reddit
Body Hair
The standard approach to removing body hair is laser hair removal. HRT will reduce body hair significantly, but not all of it. Surgery, either orchectomy or SRS will further reduce body hair. Laser works best on black hair on white skin. The more contrast the better. It doesn't work on white or red hair, or with black skin. Anyone saying otherwise is probably trying to rip you off. IPL machines are generally said to perform poorly, but are cheap.
reddit
Hair Removal Technologies
- Electrolysis is the gold standard. When done properly it will permanently remove hair and it will never come back. The disadvantages are its very time consuming (typically 100-200 hours over 1 to years), very expensive (in the region of $100 per hour), and for many very painful (more than laser). There are several technologies used, galvanic, thermolysis, and blend. See HairFacts Electrolysis (electrology) for hair removal and HairTell Professional Electrolysis Forum
- Laser - There's arguments about just how permanent laser hair removal is, but it seems to get rid of most hair for at least some considerable time. Its often recommended to start with laser and when it is not longer effective finish off with electrolysis. The advantage of laser is that its a lot cheaper and faster than electrolysis and usually a lot less painful. From what I've read it may be a mistake to use laser as treated hair could be slowly coming back for many years, but its hard to go past the benefits and I've done it myself.
- Epilators have a rotary device to catch the hair and rip it out. They are not permanent, but are cheap and effective. And incredibly painful the first few times you do it. If you keep at it the pain will disappear, tuning into a more of a tickle. Do not use an epilator on your face or public hair. Apart from being extremely painful it can damage the hair follicles making electrolysis even more difficult when you finally do it. And whatever you do keep it well away from your nipples. See HairTell Rotary Epilator Forum.
- IPL
- Shaving is clearly cheap and easy place to start, but not very effective and you'll need to get good at make up to hide the blue beard shadow.
- Eflornithine/Vaniqa is a medication used to temporarily suppress hair growth. Expensive. See HairTell Vaniqa Forum.
- Nair
Electrolysis vs Laser
Electrolysis is guaranteed. At the end of it your hair will be gone and it won't come back. Laser is not, and its not clear to what extent. I've seen some people say laser works well and others that it all comes back, and there appears some risk that it may continue to regrow years later. However electrolyis is much slower, and is far more painfull for most, and can be intolerable for a minority. Its also far more expensive than laser - you could be looking at $10k-$20k. Hence most start with laser and hope it works, with the aim of finishing off whatever is left with electrolysis.
reddit
Laser
TBA. What laser cannot do.
reddit
YouTube
Evaluating an operator
Laser therapy and photosensitive medication: a review of the evidence.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24590242
Pre-laser Preparation
Hair length
Post laser skin care
Exfoliation
Laser Technology
Paradoxal Stimulation
Also called Paradoxical hypertrichosis
reddit
Other
Papers
- 2010 - Paradoxical hypertrichosis after laser therapy: a review - by
Shraddha Desai, Bassel H Mahmoud, Ashish C Bhatia, Iltefat H Hamzavi - "Paradoxical hypertrichosis has a low incidence, ranging from 0.6% to 10%, and most commonly occurs on the face and neck. All laser and light sources have the potential to cause hair induction, especially in individuals with darker skin types (III-VI); with dark, thick hair; and with underlying hormonal conditions."
Skin and Hair Color
Laser works best with dark hair and light skin. It doesn't work on white or red hair, and possibly not on dark skin.
reddit
Skin damage
reddit
IPL
IPL is generally not effective and a waste of time and money, however a few people report good results.
reddit
Electrolysis
HairFacts
reddit
YouTube
Electrolysis machines can also be used to remove cysts and treat some skin problems, on YouTube
Michael Bono
Deceased.
An electrologist in the USA who's regarded as an expert on electrolysis
Evaluating an operator
TBD
Pre-electrolysis Preparation
TBD
Post electrolysis skin care
TBD
Electrolysis Technologies
HairZapper (this is an electrologists site, so not clear if its biased or not)
HairTell
Vellus Hair
reddit
- reply to Depression - Facial hair by SeanaTG in 2020 - "Electrolysis DOES work on vellus hair, but some electrologists are not capable of doing the work because of personal limittions( usually eyesight) and it it VERY tedious and takes a long time. People generally have many many fine vellus hairs , much more than darker hairs that your eyes can see."
Inflammation
Ibuprofen is often recommended for pain and to reduce skin irritation/swelling. However if you really have a problem with irritation and swelling then prednisolone/prednisone are prescription medications that are far more effective. These are drugs where you should consult a doctor first even if you can get them elsewhere as they have significant side effects - and don't take them any longer than you need to.
Mass Clearance
There's are a number of electrologists offering facial mass clearance (especially with anesthetics injections or IV) where in a single session over one or more days they will remove all facial hair.
I've been told that if you have a high density of facial hair this can cause permanent scarring - when hairs are closer than 3mm apart then only partial electrolysis should be done, where every 2nd or even 3rd hair is removed, and the sessions should be spaced apart. This extends the time required to remove the hair, and if you need to travel to one of these places it will put the cost up.
If you travel to one of these places then you should be able to do a full clearance once per hair growth cycle - ie once every 3 months.
Skin Damage
http://hairzapper.com/thermolysis
reddit
DIY Electrolysis
If you can't afford to pay for electrolysis a few women have managed to do DIY.
HairTell
HairFacts
reddit
HairTell
Other
Russian language
- 2018 - Как сделать электроэпилятор своими руками by leric - google translates this as "How to make an electric epilator with your own hands" - edit link to make it work https://peervideo dot ru/w/mhbF85QeHhb3DJY1JsFV4a - 3 nine volt batteries, 1 spoon, and one electrolysis probe (I think)
- 2013 - Электроэпиляция - Мой опыт by leric - google translates this as "Electrolysis - My experience", edit link to make it work, https://peervideo dot ru/w/wMz5YVYTCkx3sJcnUs5W7k
Equipment
Sebaceous Filaments and Acne
reddit
The pmfa journal
Papers
Clear Skin Clinics
Clear Skin Clinics offer Sebaceous Gland Ablation, and have clinics in Australia and New Zealand.
New Zealand Herald
- Auckland woman scarred after beauty treatments gone wrong in 2018 - "A young Auckland woman was left with permanent scarring on her nose and chin and another woman's face was damaged after reactions to treatments at a Newmarket beauty clinic. Both incidents happened at the Clearskincare Clinic on Remuera Rd, with management of the chain of clinics confirming they had offered complementary healing treatments, while officials from Auckland Council confirmed it had received a complaint from one of the women and had investigated... A week later, she said the holes turned into "pitted scars" and when she visited the clinic again, she said she was told it was her sensitive skin to blame." - note that its not clear if its the technology or clinic thats the problem, but later in the article it says "Another woman, Kate [not her real name], said she had one side of her face "cut up" after hydradermabrasion treatment at the same clinic four months ago."
YouTube
acne.org
realself
Eflornithine (Vaniqa)
Vaniqa is temporary and very expensive.
http://www.vaniqa.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eflornithine - "The topical cream is indicated for treatment of facial hirsutism in women. It is the only topical prescription treatment that slows the growth of facial hair. It is applied in a thin layer twice daily, a minimum of eight hours between applications. In clinical studies with Vaniqa, 81% percent of women showed clinical improvement after twelve months of treatment. Positive results were seen after eight weeks.[21] However, discontinuation of the cream caused regrowth of hair back to baseline levels within 8 weeks."
reddit
Transgender Map
Susans
Trans Pulse
Papers
Epilatation
Don't use an epilator on your face, and keep them well away from nipples...
reddit
Nair
reddit
Susans
Pain Management
I'm not a doctor and some of what follows is dangerous. I'm documenting what I've found in researching electrolysis - don't trust that its correct or do anything stupid. That what doctors are for.
Some people find electrolysis (and laser) quite easy to tolerate and a lucky few can sleep though it. Others cry though it, and a few can't even get that far. Most appear to find electrolysis more painful than laser, but some are the other way around. There's only one way to find out.
There's a few easy things that can help reduce pain.
- Avoid coffee for at least 24 hours before electrolysis.
- Be rested and relaxed. Get a good nights sleep and don't go in stressed.
- Be hydrated (drink lots of water) and look after your skin.
- Some find listening to music helps.
- Stop taking estrogen before electrolysis (see reddit post here)
HairTell
reddit
Susans
Local Anesthetics
Includes topical (creams) and injections
Benzodiazepines
reddit
- reply to Electrolysis agony? in 2019 - "Electrolysis is torture, and lidocaine did not help. Don't take this as an endorsement, but the only thing that allowed me to sit still and endure it was Xanax."
Intravenous Drugs
A few places offer intravenous and/or injected drugs for pain relief, but you'd be lucky to live near one of these and may have to travel. These places can offer complete clearance of facial hair in one session (you need multiple of these). These drugs are dangerous and only doctors are allowed to use them.
O2 CLinic in Belgium offer intravenous drugs.
In our clinic, we work with a patient controlled pain pump (PCA, patient controlled analgesia) which reduces the pain to zero. We are unique in the world to offer this pump for electrolysis. The computerised pump called the patient-controlled analgesia pump contains a strong pain killer that is also used in general anaesthesia (remifentanil) and is connected directly to the patient with an intravenous (IV) catheter line.
The Zukowski Center in the USA use IV and injections
The trick is that we start an IV on you, and administer a light dose of anti-pain and anti-anxiety intravenous medication to immediately relax you and make you sleepy. Nerve blocks with two types of long acting mixed local numbing medications is then performed, followed by a field block with the same local numbing medication. The sedation makes this comfortable. If you feel discomfort at some point, further local numbing medication is used.
Numbing skin with Ice
Ice applied to the skin (in a bag) prior to anesthetics can be used to reduce the injection pain. This is done at Yanhee Hospital in Thailand prior to electrolysis.
reddit
Papers
- 2017 Pre-emptive ice cube cryotherapy for reducing pain from local anaesthetic injections for simple lacerations: a randomised controlled trial by JaeWoo Song, HyukHoon Kim, EunJung Park, Jung Hwan Ahn, Eunhui Yoon, Samsun Lampotang, Nikolaus Gravenstein, SangChun Choi - " In cryotherapy group subjects, we applied an ice cube (size: 1.5×1.5×1.5 cm) placed inside a sterile glove on the wound at the anticipated subcutaneous lidocaine injection site for 2 min prior to injection... Pre-emptive topical injection site cryotherapy lasting 2 min before subcutaneous local anaesthetic injections can significantly reduce perceived pain from subcutaneous local anaesthetic injections in patients presenting for simple laceration repair."
PISTOR Eliance
This YouTube video Why all injections should be painless. by Victorian Cosmetic Institute in 2019 shows a range of techniques to reduce injection pain, but most interesting at the end (2:54) an an injector tool, the PISTOR Eliance. Unfortunately its very expensive (3600 euro) and I/ve not heard of anyone using it for electrolysis. It may also not be suitiable, as its marketed towards Mesotherapy.
Searching using the name turns up a lot of much cheaper tools on chinese sites that appear to be very similar. For example, 2021 Newest Korea Pistor Eliance Mesogun Water Meso Injector Mesotherapy Gun U225 with Needles of 5 pins 9 pins, which takes 5ml syringes, 10-250 injections per minute, and injects up to 4.5mm deep. And "only" $650.
Opiates
Every professional electrologist will tell you not to take strong drugs like opiates. Its not that the likes of endone/oxycodone don't work (they do), but problems and limitations are many and serious.
- They are dangerous and addictive.
- You can't drive home afterwards. You probably can't work for the rest of the day, and may depending on your work you may not be able to work the day or two after (they totally mess up your concentration).
- You need to spend a lot of hours doing electrolysis and you'll quickly become tolerant to the drugs way before you get very far into hair removal, and then they won't work at all. To get the same effect you'd need to continually increase the dosage, which is dangerous and increases the risk of addiction (and your Dr is going to seriously question this).
Light Sensitive Medications
There's a number of drugs than can cause photosensitivity and serious reactions when having laser, including the Ibuprofen, Celebrex, and other NSAIDs, and the anesthetic benzocaine. Its worth checking whatever you are taking and telling the laser technician beforehand.
References
Injectable anesthetics
reddit
Susans
YouTube
The forums on hairtell.com contain a lot of info on hair removal.
Papers
- 2020 - Gender Confirmation Surgery, by Schechter, L. S. (Ed.) in 2020, page 126 by Marci Bowers and Jess Ting - "We have found it helpful to inject a dilute lidocaine mixture into the scrotal skin prior to electrolysis. In addition to making the electrolysis painless, it allows the electrologist to use a higher power setting and to work more efficiently."
- 2016 - Guidelines for the use of local anesthesia in office-based dermatologic surgery
- Buffered lidocaine and bupivacaine mixture – the ideal local anesthetic solution? by Corliss A Best, Alyssa A Best, Timothy J Best and Danielle A Hamilton - "Lidocaine has a limited duration of action, which is sometimes desired in an LA but for many procedures is less than ideal. Bupivacaine has a much longer duration of action; however, due to its slow onset, it is not an ideal sole agent for procedural analgesia in most situations. The slow onset also results in a more painful injection when used as a sole agent because one cannot practically ‘freeze ahead of the needle’; the recipient, therefore, feels the needle tip traversing throughout the tissues being infiltrated, a painful experience. In addition, bupivacaine, similar to lidocaine, is commercially supplied as an acidic solution, especially those prepared with epinephrine; the acidity contributes to injection pain."
- 2012 - Virtually painless local anesthesia: diluted lidocaine proves to be superior to buffered lidocaine for subcutaneous infiltration by Martin Zaiac, Shino Bay Aguilera, Larissa Zaulyanov-Scanlan, Caroline Caperton, Stacy Chimento
- 2009 - Comparison of bupivacaine and lidocaine with epinephrine for digital nerve blocks by
M Alhelail, M Al-Salamah, M Al-Mulhim, S Al-Hamid - "Lidocaine (1%) with epinephrine (1:100 000) was significantly less painful and had a shorter duration of action than bupivacaine (0.5%), which had a similar onset of action for digital nerve block."
- 2003 - On the Mechanism by Which Epinephrine Potentiates Lidocaine's Peripheral Nerve Block
- 2001 - An introduction to Pharmacology and Drug Doses by Lauren Barker - has old/new drug names - lignocaine -> lidocaine, adrenaline -> epinephrine, - "Changes in Drug Names New regulations from the EEC now require the use of the Recommended International Non-proprietary Name (rINN) for drugs. In drugs where there is concern that a name change may pose a serious risk to patients, both the British Approved Name (BAN) and the rINN name will appear on the drug ampoule for at least the next 5 years. In other cases, the new name will appear alone.Some examples of name changes that will affect anaesthetists are:"
- 1996 - Local anesthetics. Is there an advantage to mixing solutions? by B M Ribotsky, K D Berkowitz, J R Montague - " it was determined that bupivacaine had a prolonged duration of anesthesia compared with the other two solutions. The results of this preliminary study suggest that there is no clinical advantage, with respect to onset and duration of local blockade, to using a 50/50 mixture of plain lidocaine and plain bupivacaine in place of their independent use."
- 1991 - The dosage of dilute lignocaine for the infiltration technique of local analgesia. by K. L. Yerzingatsian
Family Practice Notebook
- Local Skin Anesthesia - "Inject into subcutaneous tissue (equivalent efficacy to injecting into skin, and less painful)"
Other Links
See 2pass Clinic (Bart van de Ven) in Belgium below.
Genital Hair Removal
Some surgeons do not require genital hair removal before SRS, saying its not necessary, and certainly in the vast majority of cases its not. However as far as I can determine all surgeons that use hair bearing skin internally have cases where vaginal hair occurrs, and it can be next to impossible to remove.
Although uncommon, in bad cases internal hair can lead to recurring infections. There was unusually bad case was posted on susans around 2016/2017 from PAI (removed by the moderators) where the women had reccurring infections and was looking at having her entire vaginal lining surgically removed. Most women don't have any internal hair, but there seems to be a small percentage that do. I don't think there are enough cases to be certain of the risks with any surgeon.
There's a lot of post-op women saying its not its not necessary, because they didn't have internal hair. Not surprising, as the risk is around around 7% from one paper (when removed by the surgeon). However, is 1 in 14 an acceptable risk to you?
Due to hair growing in cycles it takes a very long time to remove properly. If you removed all of it in each cycle (so about once every month or two) you'd need a year. In practice doing a full clearance right at the start probably won't happen. To be assured its gone you need to count from when full clearance occurs and make sure it stays that way for a year. Worse there's not a 100% kill rate of hair, so just because its gone doesn't mean it won't come back in a year - you'd want to wait another year to catch those hairs on the next cycle. Anything less increases the risk of hair, and how much risk you're prepared to accept.
Laser and/or elecrolysis are used to remove genital hair. I find it hard to believe that laser is an acceptable method of genital hair removal as there's so many reports of it not being permanent on the face.
As surgeon should have a diagram of the areas where hair will need to be removed. Note that hair can be useful to hide scarring, so you may not want to remove all public hair, just the parts that will end up inside. You can always remove the hair later when you know if and where you have scars you want to hide.
Some surgeons say that electrolysis can damage the skin qualiity and reccomend against it. This would presumably be another reason to get it done well before surgery, or use laser.
These reddit posts are interesting, showing very clearly what grafted skin with hair looks like.
The "Hairy Hand" case. 1929 lawsuit about a skin graft.
reddit
- Can internal hair post op really cause micro infections? by mililanigirl in 2024 - "I’m 4 years post op after having grs with Dr. Bowers. Unfortunately, I’ve struggled with some internal hair. I’ve tried everything to get rid of it to no avail. Due to experiencing some chronic illnesses, I’m worried there might be a connection between the two."
- reply to Hair situation before srs by ghosthousebabe in 2024 - "I had a lot of hair removal before surgery but not 100%, surgeon told me it would be fine and I ended up with a lot of internal hair growth. It is WAY harder to get it removed post op, sometimes impossible if it's too deep. If you're going to Marci I wouldn't trust her judgement."
- Hair Inside Canal in 2024 - "I’m a few months postop peritoneal pull through. I have a few hairs deep in the canal probably 2” inside, right before the peritoneal tissue. I did laser and electrolysis before my surgery, so please, I don’t need the comment that I should have done it before surgery. I spent two years pre op doing my hair treatments. I’m still confused how any even got there in the first place."
- Post vaginoplasty internal electrolysis on the US East Coast? by Ellianor10 in 2024 - "my surgeon recommended not getting hair removal prior surgery, and now I have hair growing inside my vagina, so I'm looking for an electrolysis provider that could help me take care of it ", surgeon is Chettawut in Thailand
- reply to Dr. Chettawut - SRS Results - 2023 by Cautious-Choice-4010 - "I did SRS with Dr. Chettawut 1 1/2 years ago and I got a good result, but in the first few cm of my vagina a lot of hair is growing... The WIH said it's normal."
- Concerns with vaginoplasty results by DummyDemonPrincess in 2024 - "My second big issue is, that I have hair growth in my vaginal canal (even though I asked my doctor multiple times regarding hair removal to which the response repeatedly was that it "won't be an issue"... (btw my doctor said it will just fall out from use... which I can't help but doubt)"
- 1 year post-op, NYU Langone Vaginoplasty: Good results, disappointing post-op care by NYU_PostOp_Throwaway in 2023 - "We both got electrolysis for over a year. Each of us got about 1 hour per week a piece. It wasn't too bad. We both had high pain tolerances, numbing cream, and a good electrologist. NYU cleared me at my pre-op about 18 months before the surgery. I still continued getting electrolysis anyway to be safe. They recommended my wife continue electrolysis which she did. We both had similar levels of clearance by the day of our surgery... 6 Month Follow-up and disillusionment with NYU... my wife was confident there was hair in her vaginal canal... the nurses and Dr. Bluebond-Langner insisted they didn't see any hair in her vaginal canal. She thought they were wrong. To reassure my wife there was no hair in there, we bought some speculums and a high-powered flashlight. I looked inside and I immediately saw hair. It was so obvious I don't know how NYU could've possibly missed it... My wife had hair in her vaginal canal and lost her clitoral hood. NYU insisted we were wrong about all of this except the clitoral hood which they did a revision to fix. My wife had to get electrolysis in her vaginal canal to remove the hair NYU claimed she didn't have."
- 9 years post-op: PI w/ scrotal grafts with Dr. Bowers by MuffzStuffz in 2023 - "Unfortunately, things got worse at around the 5 year mark. I did not get a "full clearing" of genital electrolysis beforehand, only lasting 3 sessions due to pain and the hope that the scraping during surgery would leave me with a good result. And I think for awhile it did, but over time I got more hair regrowth, with the biggest jump being a brief period of maybe 4 weeks when I used a topical testosterone gel to help with my very reduced sex drive that was causing problems with my then long-term BF. Months later, I had noticeably more uncomfortable time with sex and my partner could feel the hairs on the inside when fingering me, and at some point I was able to pull a wad of hair out that had maybe 10+ hairs in it... I had like "around 7" hairs growing inside. I tried my best to cope with it for the next year or so, plucking the hairs the best to my ability, but by 7 years post-op, I was just kind of sick of the upkeep of cleaning it, dilating, and trying to deal with the hair. I was going through a rough spot with chronic health conditions, declining mental health, and no partners/sexual desire so I just decided to stop the uncomfortable dilating sessions and deal with the consequences later. It was nice ignoring it for awhile, but by 8 years post-op I was starting to have some pelvic pain near the surgery site even though I wasn't using the neovag canal anymore. I ended up getting new, smaller dilators to see if that would help the pain, and I found out I have about 3 or so inches left in depth... So now I still have to dilate and clean it out to help reduce the pain and discomfort in the area, even though I don't really view it as a viable sexual organ anymore (especially the neovag canal)."
- I (22F) think bottom surgery gave me PTSD by ehu_girl in 2023 - "3 years ago I had surgery with Dr. Bowers and I wasn’t prepared for the complications I had (very painful granulation tissue that made dilation extremely difficult as well as a lot of bleeding, more than normal)... I also still have a problem with internal hair growth because Bowers had said I didn’t need to get electrolysis beforehand...."
- Bottom Surgery/Tracheal shave Update: Marci Bowers, Min Jun, Dev Gurjala, Ellie Ley by AlaynasChoppy in 2023 - Surgery with Bowers, "I had done about 9 months of hair removal prior to surgery and at my consult she said that everything should be more than adequate in the hair removal department (despite having a few thin stragglers.)... The final update at the moment is that at my last Gyno appointment, my doctor informed me that there were quite a few EXTREMELY thin hairs on the very back wall of my vagina. Im pretty upset about it, especially considering how much electrolysis I went though and how confident bowers was that it should be enough. I wish that she would have been honest with me and told me to delay my surgery and get a bit smoother results from the Electrolysis first... hair in the vagina is a very very very normal Bowers result, because she always insists that she can do the follicle scrape and the in operating room hair removal, and she always says that it's okay with a little bit of hair. A lot of surgeons will just tell you no, or tell you that you will have hair, but she tries to say "almost all of our patients have amazing results with this."
- Question about electrolysis template from Bluebond-Langner by ryandunivan in 2023
- Has progesterone fucked up my hair removal? by Terminalguidance000 in 2023
- Bowers SRS Internal Hair Growth by ghosthousebabe in 2023 - "I was really worried about hair removal, but I had done 5 laser sessions plus about 8-10 hours of electrolysis and wasn't seeing too much regrowth, so they told me that I should be fine, that hair growth is unlikely after the follicular scrape and intraoperative electrolysis. They were always kinda hedging when they said this, so I never got a clear "you're definitely fine" but they didn't seem concerned about it at all. Unfortunately, I just hit 4 months out and it seems that I have a LOT of hair growth. It's really upsetting and the options for dealing with it seem really limited, so I'm not sure what to do now... I would guess probably 2+inches, it's pretty deep, so IDK if there's really going to be anything I can do about it."
- Thanks to all who gave me advice on electrolysis on the genitals. I am doing a lot better with and any of the real bad spots I am doing my own lidocaine injections. 2 hour sessions every week for a year or more @ $90 per hour, between the cost and pain we sure do earn that vagina. by Kayla__2021 in 2022
- Hair Growing Deep Inside Vaginal Canal by DenseRegret6445 in 2022 - "About 5 years ago, I had bottom surgery at GRS Montreal (Brassard). They don't/or didn't require electrolysis. I've had hair growth inside the canal since, as well as intermittent discharge (infections?) that have been a bother... It's gross and I want this fixed."
- HOW TO: Insurance coverage for Hair Removal by MonetSouffle in 2022
- How big a deal is post-op canal hair growth? by AccountThrowaway282 in 2022
- Is It OK to Have Laser Hair Removal On Genitals If I'm Having SRS With Dr. Suporn/Bank one day? by throwawayvomit258 - in the comments "... meet very briefly with Dr Banks. I immediately asked him if he prefered laser or electrolysis, and if he wants us to have the penis and tests done. He told me to avoid electrolysis because it will scar the skin deep and it also often reduces vaginaldepth. He likes laser because it is more effective and doesn't damage the skin. He told me we can have the tests and penis lasered, but with electrolysis only the perineum area. But he insisted he prefers laser, more effective and modern and without damaging the skin."
- Hair regrowth in canal...help... by aylesther in 2021 - surgeon is Alex Laungani in Canada
- reply to Approx 2.5 years post op w/ McGinn. Almost no scarring at all by thatfunnychickyouluv in 2021
- Extremely disappointed with McGinn Hair Situation by jasmine1106 in 2021 - surgeon is Christine McGinn
- Hair removal information for MTF SRS by 2d4d_data in 2021 - this post is well worth reading
- reply to What areas do I need electrolysis on? (SRS MTF) in 2021
- If you are having botton surgery make sure you get Electrolysis!!! Or a permanent solution for hair! by PatienceFuzzy in 2021
- Are u thinking about Dr. Bowers for SRS? I had to do a corrective surgery MYSELF (after discharge) by charis808 in 2021 - "And the worst was when I realized that I had hair inside of me! Dr Bowers had said that laser hair removal was unnecessary and I have nothing to worry about. Big mistake!"
- Am I just a wimp? Genital electrolysis....MTF by kaylee-42 in 2021
- Just got offered a cancellation date with Marci Bowers for SRS but COVID has prevented me from finishing hair removal! It's less than a month away! What should I do??? by Sufficient-Comment69 in 2021 - "She [Bowers] claimed that they have never had complaints about internal hair due to their use of scrapping and surgical electrolysis... That's a lie. I've had issues after 18hrs of electrolysis and let them know about it."
- reply to Question i need answered by Barb_B_notReally in 2021
- reply to What areas do I need electrolysis on? (SRS MTF) by jotspot in 2021
- reply to Electrolysis before surgery? by SeanaTG in 2021
- GCS hair removal by Seanna86 in 2021
- When was your last electrolysis appointment before SRS? by 2d4d_data in 2020
- Electrolysis and Pain by proteannomore in 2020
- Hair removal information for MTF SRS by 2d4d_data in 2020
- Dr.’s Bluebond-Langnor & Zhao @ NYU-Langone MtF GRS Genital Hair Removal Template by ashleyjm in 2020
- Genital hair removal how long by JulieAnnHope in 2020
- Erectile tissue or internal hair removal? in 2020
- reply to To electrolysis or not to electrolysis? by nilenc22 in 2020
- SRS with Dr Suporn PDF 5th Edition by Suporn2015SRS in 2020
- After vaginoplasty by edani941 in 2019
- Laser for hair removal before vaginoplasty? by iHRTSega in 2020
- Clear acrylic dilators and a flashlight can be used as fiber optics to see inside yourself by MayScream in 2020
- Perineum electrolysis? by BucketQuarry in 2019
- What is it like getting genital laser hair removal? by Jamie_GG in 2019
- To the Trans gals who have had gender reassignment, what is your experience with hair down there? by Beedeviled in 2019
- Is genital electrolysis supposed to be so painful? by Invanar in 2019
- reply to MtF surgery: what they don't tell you in 2019
- reply to Questions about Dr. Suporn by Thrwway_1985 in 2019
- Thai SRS Scraping technique? by Stevie_Rae_Pettit in 2018
- There's hair in my neo vagina :( by Enduromatic in 2018
- Hair in vagina, Chet, 6 months post-op in 2018
- Hair removal before GRS? by katy1989 around 2017. Pay particular attention to /u/SeanaTG as she's an electrologist in Canada with experience in these things. Non-genital electrolysis post of hers.
- I'm scared of SRS hairs :( by IrreleventPerson around 2017
- SRS one year ago with Dr. Chettawut, I have hair in my vaginal canal. I'm sad and worried, help or advice? by tmp_0 around 2014
Susans
HairTell
YouTube
Surgeons reccomendations
Book, Gender Confirmation Surgery, by Schechter, L. S. (Ed.) in 2020, page 126 by Marci Bowers and Jess Ting (USA surgeons)
Preoperative hair removal is essential. The key areas in which to remove hair follicles are the scrotum and penile shaft. We also clear a 1/2 inch area around the base of the penis. Inadequate hair removal results in hair growth inside the vagina. This is bothersome, unsightly, and difficult to correct postoperatively. ... At surgery, any residual hair follicles are excised using surgical loupes and a small curved iris scissors. Through this multimodal approach (electrolysis, laser, and direct excision), we are able to achieve adequate hair follicle clearance in all of our patients.
Other
Papers
Post-op Hair removal
Some of the above links have information on hair removal post-op, in particular those by u/SeanaTG aka u/ElectrolysisBySeana (she's a Canadian electrologist). It sounds very difficult, but not necessarily impossible. I'm not sure, but it may require cauterisation instead of electrolysis.
There's a couple of posts on susans by KayXo, who managed to permanently remove deep vaginal hair after using Nair at the suggestion of her surgeon Dr Brassard. See here, here, and here. Be extremely careful if you try that.
reddit
- PPT Revision for Previous PIV SRS? by TrepidatiousTrans in 2024 - "I had PIV SRS with Dr. Bowers in 2019... I cannot say I am fully satisfied to live the rest of my life like this... Even though Bowers told me she would scrape hair follicles off in surgery, and that the laser hair removal I had previously would be fine, I have moderate hair growth in the back of the canal from the grafted scrotal skin. This bothers me EXTREMELY."
- Help with GRS Revisions by Konekays in 2024 - "I had my vaginoplasty with Dr Bowers a little over a year and a half ago... I’ve also noticed alot of hair growth inside the vaginal canal recently. I did have laser hair removal, but I think I missed alot of the hair around the peritoneum and shaft because those areas were so painful. Is there any way to remove the hair now? I've been apprehensive to have a revision consultation with Dr. Bowers because of some dismissiveness in the past."
- reply to So what if you do end up with hair inside? by bubblegumm00 in 2023 - "This is happening to me currently despite having multiple Electrolysis sessions (not getting into that) and the options were either go under anesthetic to ‘try’ and remove the hair surgically which even then the hair could grow back or a revision and I’ve opted for the revision to replace the lining inside my vagina... please make sure your hair is completely gone before having the inital vaginoplasty, it will cause you alot less stress and alot less complications in your recovery time... so all the plans I had when I recovered fully from my surgery I have had to push them until next year when this issue will be fully resolved"
- Haare in Vagina by EvaBrownie88 in 2023 - post-op hair with Cvetan Taskov in Germany
- 3 year post op srs, Karolinska Sweden, 2 revision surgeries. Very happy with the results now and all the problems were resolved. Finally last update, more info in comments also AMA. by stupidstories in 2022 - "My two biggest complaints used to be hair on the inside and pain. Thanks to the revisions I no longer have any hair on the inside and it is possible to do diathermy hair removal on the inside."
- So I had electrolysis done once again on the inside during my revision surgery.. by crose9310 in 2022 - "The hairs make it more challenging to keep an odor from developing. When I wasn’t diligent about tweezing, sometimes I’d feel a kind of “internal irritation” that seemed impossible to really relieve."
- reply to How big a deal is post-op canal hair growth? by pwngirl24 in 2022 - "I had it removed under general anesthesia. My hairs were extremely deep and otherwise inaccessible. I was also having other issues fixed at that time, so I asked the surgeon to address that issue while she was in there anyway. To quote my gyno: "She underwent surgery at that time, and several hairs were removed from the vaginal epithelium along the posterior vaginal area. The follicles were gently cauterized in attempt to decrease likelihood of hair regrowth.""
- Silver nitrate for internal hair? by fairies- in 2021
- Post-op internal vaginal hair by throwawayhuman234 in 2021 - surgeon Kathy Rumer in USA
- Is there any hope for removing internal hair? by reallytiredandsad in 2021
- reply to Electrolysis before surgery? by SeanaTG in 2021
- reply to NSFW devastated with how bad my results are looking by soafafilla in 2020
- Nair Nightmare! How do I get gf to go to hospital? Possible 2nd degree chemical burns, is this treatable? Please help! by heresjohnny94 in 2018
- TIFU by chemically burning my vag [NSFW] by partypanic in 2018
- reply to Hair removal before GRS? by SeanaTG - this explains why its not possible to remove deep internal hair with electrolysis
Susans
Other
Cauterization
I have heard of cauterisation being used to remove hair, but it was by a surgeon and presumably an surgical electrocauterisation tool was used. It was only once, and I don't know the result. Perhaps a gynocoloist may have the equipment and be able to do that same. Electrolysis slides a very thin probe down the side of the hair to kill it, and I would assume that cauterisation burns a much larger hole where the hair is, and that there might be a risk of infection afterwards.
Silver nitrate sticks have been suggested (once) as being used, but it doesn't seem likely they would be able to cauterise to the depth required to permanently kill hair (this post suggests 1 to 3mm).
Electrolysis machines can use probes that burn off skin tags, so it may be possible to use them for causterisation. The difficulty with electrolsis normally for deep hair that its not possible to insert the probe in due to angle of the hair at depth (normally you'd just change the probe angle and stretch the skin).
reddit
- reply to U OF M OR MAYO?? by WVjF2mX5VEmoYqsKL4s8 in 2023, surgeon Jorys Martinez-Jorge in USA - Mayo will tell you hair removal is not necessary. This is not true. You must completely clear the area with electrolysis beforehand or risk dealing with hair afterwards... I have had countless silver nitrate treatments and one followup surgery to cauterize what silver nitrate could not. I anticipate at least one more cauterization surgery to eliminate hypergranulated tissue and hair follicles inside my vagina.
- POST-SRS: hair inside vagina. Can it be removed? by KaySOS in 2020 - "Yes. I just had hairs removed from pretty deep inside my vagina as well as just under my urethra. You just need to find a gynecologist that will do it. Mine took forceps, pulled the hair out, and then applied silver nitrate to the follicles to "discourage" (her words) them from coming back. Will they stay gone? I don't know. I just had it done like on Monday."
YouTube
A surgeons point of view
SRS surgeon Dr Sidhbh Gallagher's YouTube video Why We No Longer Require Hair Removal is interesting as it shows a surgeons point of view. After visiting a conference and attending a workshop by surgeon Kathy Rumer, who does "really beautiful work" and who "does not require any sort of hair removal before surgery" she no longer requires hair removal. Dr Rumer is not seeing a problem in the long term in her practice. Sidhbh Gallagher does penile inversion and uses "scrotal skin to line the deepest part of the vagina".
In her video Gallagher quotes a 2006 survey of 232 post-op women, Patient-reported complications and functional outcomes of male-to-female sex reassignment surgery by Anne Lawrence, in which "only 7% of patients had significant problems with hair growth in the vagina" and a "bit over half of the patients who are having the serious problems had undergone a lot of electrolysis before their surgery" so hair removal "doesn't really seem to make a difference". Therefore she is no longer requiring patients to undergo laser hair removal and hair removal is optional (since March 2018). Note that she does have patients with vaginal hair. The 7% statistic appears to come from the the paper saying "Among the 17 participants reporting the most serious vaginal hair problems".
Personally I think that paper is a warning to do electrolysis properly rather than taking shortcuts (as some do), and that no surgeon informs patient of the risks associated with their choices. The hair growth cycle for genital hair is 10 months (vs 14 for chin) according to the Richards-Merhag table. You'd need at least one cycle to completely remove all hair (possibly multiples of that if you missed any). There's another potential issue that increases in hormone levels can simulate previously dormant folicles causing new hair growth.
Futher information on Dr Sidhbh Gallagher can be found in this wiki here.
As an aside, Anne Lawrence is notorious in the trans community.
As of 17 April 2022, SRS surgeon Dr Kathy Rumer sayson her website (with my itallics)
Dr. Rumer performs a One-Stage Modified Penile Inversion Vaginoplasty which results in an authentic appearance with excellent depth, function and sensation. In addition, Dr. Rumer’s Vaginoplasty technique does not require electrolysis or laser hair removal of the genital area before surgery, and there is NO regrowth.
However in the lawsuit THOMPSON v. RUMER filed Feb 1, 2020 Dr Rumer argues (again with my itallics)
Defendants Kathy L. Rumer D.O., F.A.C.O.S. and Delaware Valley Aesthetics, PLLC d/b/a Rumer Cosmetic Surgery will prove that they complied with the standard of care in performing Roxanne Thompson's gender reassignment surgery on September 13, 2016. Hair regrowth is a recognized complication of vaginoplasty. Complete hair removal, whether it is done pre-operatively or post-operatively is never guaranteed. There are differing schools of thought on the subject of hair removal when performing gender reassignment surgery."
Futher information on Dr Kather Rumer can be found in this wiki here.
YouTube
Skin Care
HairTell
Papers
Countries
reddit
Australia
None
Adelaide
Amber Beeching
reddit
Melbourne
GK Hair Removal
Key details
reddit
Hands on Laser Cosmetic Clinic
Key details
reddit
Melbourne Hair Removal Center
No trans women!
Key details
reddit
Peach Clinic
Also in Sydney
Key details
reddit
Head to Toe
Key details
reddit
Advanced Dermal Institute
Does laser, electrolysis, fillers
Location
- 6 Bridge Rd, Richmond, Victoria 3121
Sites
reddit
realself
Other
Melbourne Electrolysis
Key details
reddit
Hildi Hair Removal
Key details
reddit
Advanced Electrolysis Melbourne
Key detailt
reddit
NSW
HairTell
Other Electrolysis Providers
Laser
- Laser Clinics Australia is popular and they are all over the place. They have sales on occasion.
- LaserDerm in Canterbury, ask for Kirsty (only) who's very experienced. Can be expensive so try to negotiate a discount if you've a lot of work. Much better than Laser Clinic Australia in my opinion.
Nicolsons Electrolysis
The site of Katherine Spiric, most transwomen I know go here.
Key details
reddit
Peach Clinics
Also opening in Melbourne
Key details
reddit
YouTube
Permanence
Key details
reddit
Forever Hair Removal
Key details
Electrolysis Sydney Clinic
Key details
reddit
South Coast Electrolysis
Key details
- https://www.fabiolabeauty.com.au/beauty-services/electrolysis - "Fabiola Beauty now hosts South Coast Electrolysis within the salon (managed by Karen) to offer Electrolysis Hair Removal, ensuring best-practice, safe, and permanent hair removal in a respectful and caring environment."
- Fabiola Beauty, Suite 4 - 6 Centretown Plaza, 128 - 134 Crown St Mall, Wollongong NSW 2500
reddit
Queensland
Divine Beauty Skin and Body?
Key details
reddit
Ella Baché Upper Mt Gravatt
Key details
reddit
Epilette Beauty Electrolysis Skincare
Key details
reddit
Capri Beauty Clinic
Key details
There seems to be another location with possibly the same owner, Tina Hall, Capri Beauty Salon at Main Beach 4217, QLD
reddit
Review sites
Beauty and Electrolysis Brisbane
Key details
reddit
Review sites
Katrinas Skin Works
Seems to be lots of locations
Key details
reddit
- reply to Electrolysis in Brisbane by SMRDSE in 2022 - "I haven't had a session yet, but I had a consult at Katrina's skin works in Taigum. The lady was lovely and supportive, but they only offered me electrolysis for my face."
Review sites
Western Australia
Corpo Bella Electrolosis
Key details
reddit
Austria
reddit
Belgium
2pass Clinic / O2 Clinic
Owned by FFS surgeon Dr Bart van de Ven.
Location
Sites
O2 Clinic is also owned by Dr Bart. I'm not sure if there's any difference for hair removal.
reddit
Susans
Hairtell
- reply to Berchem, Belgium: 2pass Clinic in 2017- "I’m asking someone on reddit if they can allow me to share a picture they have sent to me. It appears they attended at the 2pass clinic in Antwerp. The picture shows significant scabbing and overtreatment, and I think it likely will result in scarring of some sort though only time will tell. Some caution is definitely warranted."
YouTube
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
Finland
4 soulmates Beauty Clinic
Key details
reddit
Germany
reddit
Spain
reddit
Switzerland
reddit
Thailand
Yahhee Hospital
Location
Yahhee hospital in Bangkok used to be the only place in Thailand that doing electrolysis.
Their electrolysis machine is the Japanese IME HR-5000. It appears to be a very old model.
They are very expensive per hour, but can do anesthetic injections. The use thermolysis which is very quick (about 1000 hairs/hour). Clearing a heavy beard in a single session is possible, but may cause skin damage.
reddit
HairTell
Susans
Kamol
- Kamol Hospital Review by cashoob in 2022 - links to KAMOL HOSPITAL THAILAND REVIEW on blogspot, they use numbing cream, not injections - "The electrolysis were not very painful because of good anaesthetics but the job was horrible. 2 months after the procedure and after healing of the skin I am left with holes in my face like after severe acne. They did not pay attention to the job and left a lot of dead hair inside; this was causing pain and issue for almost 2 months. Entire face was swollen for over 3 weeks. Each of those blood dots on the picture did turn into physical damage on the skin. Some are quite big and deep."
UK
https://www.electrolysis.co.uk/members
https://electrolysis4hairremoval.co.uk/
https://www.lbps.co.uk/electrolysis - this is the site of Christopher Inglefield who does trans surgeries - "A benefit of having the procedure at LBPS is local anaesthetic injections, which can be administered by our Electrolygist to particularly sensitive areas in order to ensure your comfort throughout the procedure."
USA
Surgeon Marci Bowers has a list of genital hair removal places in the USA
reddit
Susans
YouTube
AboutYou Hair Removal
Not sure what the connection is between this and Precision Hair Removal - looks like the same place?
Does injections/IV. This is some connection with FFS surgeon Dr Zukowski.
reddit
Susans
Mark Zukowski
reddit
- Frightening experience with Dr. Zukowski by birdsandsnakes in 2023 - Yesterday, I went for high volume hair removal at the Cirine Hair Removal. They're associated with the Zukowski Center, and Dr Zukowski gives medical support — the deal is, he sedates you and gives you lidocaine injections to numb your face, and then they do a very long electrolysis session. I had a really scary experience. Shortly after my third set of lidocaine injections, I'd gone for a bathroom break, when suddenly I found myself disoriented, losing control of my limbs, having a hard time walking, seeing double, and struggling to put sentences together. I made it out of the bathroom and asked an electrologist to call 911 — I could no longer use my phone to do it myself — but they refused. Instead, they called Dr Zukowski back. He tried to convince me I was having a panic attack. (I've had panic attacks. This was not a panic attack.) At this point, my arms and legs were twitching uncontrollably, and I couldn't stand or walk without help. He insisted that this was my fault, and that I'd feel better if I relaxed. Eventually, he gave me some kind of intravenous medication that stopped the attack. I've since learned that those were symptoms of a lidocaine overdose, which could have progressed to seizures or coma.
- Large Volume Electrolysis by Revolutionary-Net-42 in 2023 - "I think the electro techs do amazing! HOWEVER, Dr. Zukowski made comments that made me never want to go back (he put in iv, gave controlled drugs, and lidocaine injections). We were discussing my weight loss and FFS and he was upset I never got a consult with him. Then he made a comment he could have made me 10x prettier, and I started crying. It was an absolutely horrible experience with him. But the electrolysis staff are on point, friendly, and professional. Dr. Z really disappointed me with his demeanor today, made me feel worthless, ugly, and frankly just put me in a depressed mood. For a Doctor dealing with a population already hypercritical of their physical bodies, the comments he made were….ugh."
- I just had large volume electrolysis by 1EskNineteen in 2021
- reply to Looking for experiences / results with Dr. Jess Ting / Dr. Christine McGinn by Maybebaby57 in 2019
- High Volume Electrolysis at the Zukowski Center in Chicago by Marina325 in 2016 - "The place is called About Your Permanent Hair Removal and they're affiliated with the Zukowski center for cosmetic surgery."
New York City
New York Electrolysis Office
sites
reddit
Nios Electrolysis Permanent Hair Removal Center
Sites
reddit
Alabama
https://altgo.us/pages/local-resources.html#hair-removal
Arizona
The Meltzer Clinic PC
https://themeltzerclinic.com/meltzer-clinic-news-and-events - "The Senza Pelo MedSpa is opening a satellite treatment room at the Meltzer Clinic! Stephanie Shields will be available every Wednesday from 12- 6 for electrolysis. If you are interested in numbing injects, you must book the first appointment of the day so the doctors can administer the necessary injection."
California
Beverly Hills Hair Free
Key details
reddit
Mary's Body Aesthetica
Key details
- Los Angeles, California
- Anesthetic injections
- https://www.maryyamaki.com - "Pain Free Electrolysis and Laser Hair Removal With Localized Anesthesia Injections... I have been proudly serving the LGBTQ community for over 30 years. I started my business in 1980 and was the first Electrologist in Los Angeles to serve the community."
Layla's Electrolysis & Skin Care
Key details
- Los Angeles, California
- Anesthetic injections
- https://www.laylas-electrolysis.com/electrolysis - "15, 30, 45 minutes and hourly sessions. Marathon sessions (employing 1 or 2 technicians) also available, including general anesthesia sessions at a physician's office." - I expect the "general anesthesia" is a typo and its supposed to be "local anesthesia". General anesthesia is what you get for surgery.
Dana Elise Solutions
Key details
Metamorphosis Medical Center
Key details
- Dr. Kristen Vierregger
- 8081 Stanton Ave. Ste 300, Buena Park, California 90620
See also the HRT implant page for more information on Dr. Vierregger
reddit
- Large-Volume Electrolysis in SoCal by BadBettyElectrolysis in 2023 - "...Metamorphosis Medical Center is now offering multi-hour, large-volume/marathon electrolysis hair removal with sedation or local anesthetic..."
Illinois
Precision Hair Removal and Skin Care
This is mixed up with AboutYou Hair Removal. I'm not sure if its the same business or not.
reddit
Kelly Inc. Electrolysis
Location
- 715 Lake St., Suite 300, Oak Park, Illinois
YouTube
Crine
Location
- Chicago
- Wilmette, At The Zukowski Center, 3612 Lake Ave, Wilmette, IL 60091
Sites
reddit
- My Experience with Large Volume Electrolysis by lv-electro-throwaway in 2024
- Bulk electrolysis (Cirine): a thread by mcgoverp in 2023
- Frightening experience with Dr. Zukowski by birdsandsnakes in 2023 - Yesterday, I went for high volume hair removal at the Cirine Hair Removal. They're associated with the Zukowski Center, and Dr Zukowski gives medical support — the deal is, he sedates you and gives you lidocaine injections to numb your face, and then they do a very long electrolysis session. I had a really scary experience. Shortly after my third set of lidocaine injections, I'd gone for a bathroom break, when suddenly I found myself disoriented, losing control of my limbs, having a hard time walking, seeing double, and struggling to put sentences together. I made it out of the bathroom and asked an electrologist to call 911 — I could no longer use my phone to do it myself — but they refused. Instead, they called Dr Zukowski back. He tried to convince me I was having a panic attack. (I've had panic attacks. This was not a panic attack.) At this point, my arms and legs were twitching uncontrollably, and I couldn't stand or walk without help. He insisted that this was my fault, and that I'd feel better if I relaxed. Eventually, he gave me some kind of intravenous medication that stopped the attack. I've since learned that those were symptoms of a lidocaine overdose, which could have progressed to seizures or coma.
- Electrolysis with Sedation in the Mid-Atlantic? by Educational-Scar-559 in 2023
Michigan
Powers Family Medicine
Electrolysis with anesthetic injections.
Location
reddit
Pennsylvania
The Papillon Center
reddit
Susans
YouTube
Oregon
Willamette Valley Esthetics & Electrolysis
Key details
Texas
Electrology 3000 (Dallas, TX)
reddit
Susans
Beverly Hills Hair Free
See their California entry above for more info.
Key details
Washington
TS Electrolysis
Tatiana Stein Electrolysis
Key details
Links to another site Tatiana Stein Electrolysis
Wiki Index
