Unsuccessful surgery by Chettawut

131
u/Wife_UK
Wed Jul 17 17:56:48 2019 UTC
(112 comments)

My wife has undergone an SRS in Chettawut's clinic in March. I was going to write about it since then but couldn't even start sinking into this hell again... But from the beginning. We've been messaging with them for 6 months, did all tests, she stopped taking her hormones... We planned everything perfectly. She was healthy, prepared and full of hope. When we came to Thailand everything was all right, we read about it a lot and were not surprised of anything. My wife went to the hospital on March 12 being sure that was the day all her dreams would come true... But the next day when I came to the clinic to visit her the doctor came and said to us: I'm sorry but I couldn't create a vaginal cavity because you have rectum protrusion. He just said that and went home to have lunch. After informing a person that he failed all her dreams and hopes... He just said that he decided it was too risky... Devastated is the wrong word to describe her emotional state... She just laid there wanting to die... And I just couldn't stop crying seeing her like that... And the nurses just kept to remind me that visiting time was over and I needed to leave... No compassion at all.

I realise that many people actually choose to do just a vulvaplasty because it's easier and there's no need to dilate (personally I understand this decision). But my wife really wanted to have a vagina. In her opinion it would have made her a real woman. Nothing less. In was her dream that kept her alive from the beginning of her transition. And it was completely ruined...

As far as we understand now the protrusion was caused by our anal sex practices. The tissue there is very sensible and easy to damage. BUT! It is SO easy to diagnose! The simplest ultrasound or even just a proctologic examination would have determined it. Chettawut is a surgeon, a very experienced one, WHY don't they do these tests? It's basic! He found out about the protrusion during the surgery! Not before! I understand that there might be some risk going further with the surgery, but I find it absolutely unacceptable not to do simple tests before! And he didn't apologize for that, he was just defending himself. Of cause, there was no mentioning of the revision... Later I visited Marci Bower's website where they offer the second surgery and explicitly say that it is often necessary after surgeries made in Thailand because surgeons there don't care about the patients just about the statistics...

And the treatment itself reminded me not the western model but the soviet one... Where you can't go with your partner to the examination room or stay long enough to support them. Also when my wife came to the final examination they literally tired her legs!!! Yes, they didn't do anything, just checked the healing process, but they also didn't explain anything to her, she was there alone and terrified. I call it medical abuse which I remember very well from my childhood.

It has been 4 months since then. Her vulva still hurts a bit, it's sensitive but some parts are still numb. She can come but is afraid of sex because she's very traumatized... She blames the surgeon (for obvious reasons), me (that I ruined her health and her life) and herself (that she was so stupid to trust people)... She's deeply depressed, self-harming, says that she failed her transition, it is her existential defeat and she wants to die... I'm really not sure she'll ever get over this completely unless we'll find a way to fix it. Neither I'm not sure that our marriage will survive this.

I remember reading other girl's post where she said than you can judge about the surgeon not by their succes but by how they treat those they failed... That's right. I realise that most patients go out of the clinic happy with the result. But not all of them. And those remain invisible and ignored...

all 112 comments


31
u/taikatytto
Wed Jul 17 19:41:14 2019 UTC
*
(4 children)

I realise that most patients go out of the clinic happy with the result. But not all of them. And those remain invisible and ignored...

Thank you for opening up about this, it's valuable information for possible future patients.

I've seen people mention before that he "gives up" easily and stops if he encounters adhesions, then you won't get as much depth. That's a different thing though, I don't understand why would a rectum protrusion cause problems.

Can you tell more about it so others can consider? Was/is it more like an external hemorroid or an internal prolapse ? (The links are drawings, not photographs.)

11
OP
Wed Jul 17 21:21:43 2019 UTC
(2 children)

i’m not sure about the medical terms, he just wrote protrusion. but what it really is that her rectum is deformed because of how i pressed it towards a prostate and it is too thin and stretched now(( it’s too close to a prostate so there’s not much space to create a canal there and it requires more work and attention to do that not to damage the rectum...

9
Thu Jul 18 00:48:52 2019 UTC
(1 child)

Thanks, sounds more like the case in the second drawing.

I'm sorry, a terribly personal question, feel free to ignore, but... how often did you go at it over what time period? I just recalled reading of a similar case somewhere on reddit before, second hand, but apparently she had sex worker level of activity.

3
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:43:12 2019 UTC
(0 children)

it's ok. i cant's say that we had sex very often... few times a week during the last 6 months. and we never used big toys. probably the problem was caused by my nails... i try to make them as short as possible but maybe it was not enough((

2
u/sg2k19
Sun Jul 28 18:23:34 2019 UTC
(0 children)

The term is "abdominal adhesion".

29
u/rose-leaf
Thu Jul 18 02:59:13 2019 UTC
(4 children)

Unfortunately it is a little known fact that having anal sex can cause problems such as this when it comes to SRS. This information needs to be more widespread.

If you are planning on SRS in the future, avoid anal sex as much as possible.

12
Thu Jul 18 07:59:13 2019 UTC
(0 children)

I've only really heard of the anal sex thing before with Chettawut. I'd be interested if you have links to other surgeons saying this.

22
Thu Jul 18 04:47:52 2019 UTC
(2 children)

Great. Another thing I can't enjoy because I'm trans. Oh the irony. I wonder how common this problem is, because anal is like a fundamental part of my sexuality as I don't have a vagina yet.

11
Thu Jul 18 05:30:47 2019 UTC
(1 child)

It is more common that people realize, but unless you have been around for a long time and are into doing lots of research, you most likely wouldn’t know. Most people are reluctant to post stories about complications.

In addition to rectal protrusions from anal sex, adhesions can also occur from anal sex. Adhesions will not necessarily prevent the creation of a vaginal canal, but they will severely limit depth. Moral of the story, don’t do anal. Yes it’s a lot to ask. Being trans is a lot to ask. A hard life indeed.

8
Thu Jul 18 16:11:51 2019 UTC
(0 children)

So is there some kind of scientific data about how often these problems occur due to anal sex and how frequency and roughness of the sex affects it? Because I find it hard to believe that a large part of the people having anal will automatically get serious complications. Or do they really just never notice it because most people will never be operated "down there"?

48
u/MaddieB82817
Wed Jul 17 18:24:40 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Stories like this are what kept me from ever considering a Thai surgeon. I’m so sorry to hear about this. If you can, maybe look into Dr. Bluebond-Langner. She offers revisions of previous surgeries and with the technique she uses, it may be possible to create a vaginal canal using peritoneal tissue.

Wishing you and your wife the best 💜 I can’t imagine what you’re going through.

34
u/RedPrincessLoli
Wed Jul 17 18:49:31 2019 UTC
(10 children)

Now Im utterly terrified, I have SRS with Chettawutt on 2 August and have been active with large toys anally for the past years.

37
OP
Wed Jul 17 19:00:48 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Just go to any proctologist and check your rectum before the surgery, I hope you’ll be all right! You can always DM me if you need any advice.

3
Sat Nov 23 23:23:17 2019 UTC
(1 child)

How did it go?

7
Sat Nov 23 23:42:50 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Hey ! Im 3 month post-op now, everything went smoothly, the nurse team were lovely. The recovery was fine, first month was a bit hard moving around (and sitting without pillow), but by the 6-7 weeks marks I could move easily and sit everywhere.

Im now only doing one dilatation per day (in the evening) and I don’t experience any depth loss. (I start right on 2 for 20 mins, 3 for 10 mins and 4 for 40mins)

Pain was meh, honestly the most pain I experienced was the removal of the catheter (a solid 8/10). Else, it was around 3~4/10 usually and by the second month mark no pain anymore.

The plane travel back home (10 hour flight) was a bit difficult needed to take breaks and walk around the plane every 2 hours.

For the moment, I still have yet to experience an orgasm but its mainly because I don’t feel horny or in the mood and because my hormone balance is wayyyy offtracks. Once everything is back at the right amount I think Ill be able to get off. ^

If you have any questions feel free to ask me !

3
Wed Nov 16 09:36:38 2022 UTC
(4 children)

Heya just wondering as a person who plays with large toys and will get srs in the near future, did the surgeon mention anything? And did the years of large toys kind of change things about your "back door". Because for me it did and im scared my srs will go wrong because of it.

3
Wed Nov 16 09:49:24 2022 UTC
(3 children)

There have been many cases of problems Chettawut blames on anal sex. Some serious. I’ve not heard of it from anyone else. Look in the wiki on his sub.

4
Mon Nov 21 08:33:25 2022 UTC
(0 children)

thats actually terrifying, Chett’s office was offering me a date like halfway through the year and now im scared to even take this chance.

1
Thu Aug 17 08:44:37 2023 UTC
(1 child)

DO NOT USE THE BUTCHER OF BANGKOK! He implanted metal in my head without my permission, severed all my facial nerves, left me disfigured, AND left erectile tissue in my vagina so I still get erection sensations! I’ve tried to commit suicide 5 times since survey before I got my health under control. He deformed my face and ruined my dream. He’s a liar, a butcher, and the worst human being on the face of the planet.

1
Tue Mar 12 03:17:09 2024 UTC
(0 children)

What’s your depth in inch ?

10
u/[deleted]
Wed Jul 17 23:35:40 2019 UTC
(1 child)

I definitely sympathize for your wife. I had bottom surgery a little over 7 months ago and my depth is limited. Unfortunately, I don't feel that complications get discussed enough and how much of a mental toll it takes when surgeries don't live up to expectations. I wish you and her strength as you both work through this difficult time. Best wishes.

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:29:24 2019 UTC
(0 children)

thank you. i wish you all the best too.

9
u/[deleted]
Thu Jul 18 03:19:03 2019 UTC
(1 child)

I would strongly recommend therapy for her, this is such a difficult time, and it would help for her to have professional psychological assistance.

I know she probably already knows this, but a vaginal canal is not what makes someone a woman. She is just as whole and complete as anyone else.

Please don’t give up, please consult with other surgeons who may be able to fix the situation. SRS has come a long way, and there could very well be another option.

My heart goes out to her and to you, I sincerely hope for the best ❤️

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:15:32 2019 UTC
(0 children)

thank you very much

7
u/[deleted]
Wed Jul 17 23:34:33 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Thanks for sharing your experience. That is truly awful. I got home less than two days ago from my surgery in Thailand with Chettawut, and it all went well for me, but I can imagine what she felt. I would be devastated as well if I got so close to having surgery only to have my dreams crushed.

u/[deleted]
Thu Jul 18 06:35:34 2019 UTC
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(3 children)

[deleted]

4
Thu Jul 18 09:06:34 2019 UTC
(2 children)

Everyone's anatomy is different, what you can tolerate someone else's anatomy can't it's just that simple.

Thu Jul 18 11:00:53 2019 UTC
*
(1 child)

[deleted]

4
Thu Jul 18 11:12:00 2019 UTC
*
(0 children)

Well you're entitled to your opinion but it appears it was entirely down to this women's anatomy not Chet's surgical technique. If she'd have gone to another surgeon they'd have done the same or worse would have attempted to give her a vagina and left her open for massive issues post op. Believe me I've looked after ICU patients with massive complications in that area and it's a nightmare. Better no vagina than the risk of death or repeated crippling surgeries requiring perhaps a permanent stoma bag.

Unless you have actual clinical experience like I do perhaps that's hard to fathom but trust me I've seen it many many times. And you know who gets the unenviable task of removing life support while the family are watching, it's me and not the doctor. I've done it so many times and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

And yeah you've read a lot (as have I) but you're not an expert in the field because I'm certainly not even with decades of clinical experience because although we might have had SRS neither of us has clinical training in this area or the exact details of the case. Too many people on these forums are essentially giving medical advice and pronouncements, you say you think she can have peritoneal pull through but you have no idea if that's appropriate or even possible. If I had to guess I would say it's not possible due to her anatomy but as I say that's a guess as I don't have all the information and even if I did I'm not a surgeon.

I think it's valuable for this case to be highlighted but in a fair manner that doesn't sensationalise things with unsound advice and opinions.

6
u/SilveredFlame
Thu Jul 18 07:09:19 2019 UTC
(2 children)

Look into a technique called "Peritoneal Pull-through". My spelling may be off, but that's what it's called. It's been used for many years on cis women born without vaginas. There are a handful of surgeons who do it here in the states, and almost all of them pretty much do it primarily as a revision to failed/unsatisfactory surgeries.

​

Side note.... She shouldn't be blaming you at all. You didn't do this to her. I get she's in a dark place, but that's not ok. Anyway,

​

Sorry things went so poorly. I hope you and your wife can get to a better place with everything, and heal and have many happy years together.

2
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:09:07 2019 UTC
(1 child)

thank you, i hope that too...

1
Tue Mar 12 02:19:40 2024 UTC
(0 children)

Also colon srs

13
u/[deleted]
Wed Jul 17 21:48:56 2019 UTC
(14 children)

you can judge about the surgeon not by their succes but by how they treat those they failed...

That is exactly why I didn't go to a Thai surgeon!

20
Wed Jul 17 23:40:39 2019 UTC
(13 children)

I mean, it sucks that this happened to OP's wife, but let's not pretend this is exclusive to Thailand surgeons. Or is the famous butcher named Brassard a Thai surgeon now? What about Kathy Rumer? Those two have some of the worst reputations when it comes to bad results and awful bedside manners, but they are not from Thailand.

Once again, I am not doubting the story the OP is telling us here. I stayed in Thailand for 28 days, and dealt with Chettawut's staff for the whole time. It all went smoothly for me, but I could 100% see they flipping from being nice and gentle to me to not giving a squid's butt about my concerns. Chettawut in particular, while he visited me everyday when I was in the clinic, he... Hm... Doesn't seem to care that much, at least not as much as the nurses care (or pretend to, I mean, it is not like they really care about the hundreds of patients they attend to every year).

From MY experience, I still recommend him but I find important that people share experiences that didn't go as well. I would have been scared as hell if this was posted before my surgery, though. I can't imagine what people scheduled with Chett are feeling right now after reading this.

7
Thu Jul 18 01:16:21 2019 UTC
(5 children)

Or is the famous butcher named Brassard a Thai surgeon now?

Do you have any links to his negative stories? I'm seriously considering Brassard and would love any and all info about him. Good and bad.

7
Thu Jul 18 03:52:18 2019 UTC
(2 children)

Rumer is pretty notorious, but I've never heard of Brassard having that kind of a known bad track record. He even did my ex's, and she was really happy with it and raved about the experience.

3
Thu Jul 18 04:07:52 2019 UTC
(1 child)

I had heard that he's in very high-demand and is constantly doing procedures. I've also heard that he has patients sign in NDA but I think that it may just be a rumor, but it would somewhat explain why it's so hard to find images of his results.

3
Thu Jul 18 09:07:25 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Sure, but none of those things equate to Brassard being a "butcher".

1
Thu Jul 18 07:57:10 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Look in the wiki here.

5
Thu Jul 18 00:24:17 2019 UTC
(2 children)

let's not pretend this is exclusive to Thailand surgeons.

Sorry, I can see how it came across that way, but that's not what I meant.

I live in Australia. My options were to stay within Australia and use the leading local surgeon, or head to Thailand. I ultimately chose to stay within Australia and not use a Thai surgeon because of the stories I had heard regarding the lack of post operative care when complications arise. Here in Australia, I have consumer protections and a surgeon with a known good track record and willingness to work with girls who experience complications. I was not intending to imply that the problem is unique to Thai surgeons...

2
Thu Jul 18 08:10:32 2019 UTC
(0 children)

The track record and being able to check it is what really protects you. There's bad surgeons in Australia and nothing gets done about it.

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:39:59 2019 UTC
(0 children)

exactly. in such country as australia you at least feel like you have patient's rights. when you're in thailand it's a lottery. they don't owe you anything, you don't speak their language, you have nowhere to go if anything goes wrong... they will just kick you out of clinic and that's it. no obligations, no responcibility,

3
Thu Jul 18 03:05:05 2019 UTC
(2 children)

I went with Rumer. Don't do that.

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:32:42 2019 UTC
(1 child)

Could you please give some links to read about her?

2
Mon Jul 22 23:36:58 2019 UTC
(0 children)

They are in the wiki here.

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:36:02 2019 UTC
(0 children)

at least he visited you... he came to my wife's room just once to tell the bad news and that's it... he was probably afraid of seeing her after what she did. it's not how a good doctor should behave...

3
u/[deleted]
Thu Jul 18 04:02:42 2019 UTC
(0 children)

This is traumatizing just to read. I am was? heavily considering Chett.

3
u/rose-leaf
Thu Jul 18 04:58:13 2019 UTC
(1 child)

I don’t know of any SRS surgeons that require an ultrasound or a proctologic exam before surgery. I believe you would have encountered this problem regardless of which surgeon you went to.

If all surgeons started requiring full rectal exams before each surgery, the costs would rise for an already expensive surgery. I don’t think it should be required for everyone.

However, I do think that all SRS surgeons should ask their patients during the intake process about their sexual activity history. And if there is a history of anal sex, then the surgeon could require the additional exam/test.

I’m very sorry this happened. Chettawut is quite thorough in his intake process but this aspect is indeed missing. But again, it’s missing from all SRS surgeons worldwide so it’s not exclusively a Thailand problem.

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:14:53 2019 UTC
(0 children)

In a country where we made all pre-op tests we could do complete (and good) proctological examination for less than 50$. If they just asked about sexual activity histore... I'm afraid they don't include this question even after our case(((

9
u/[deleted]
Wed Jul 17 20:17:21 2019 UTC
(0 children)

I had surgery with Chettawut as well and I got a result I was very happy with. This being said, I did definitely notice that the level or care wasn’t quite up to par and they were not the most hospitable. I would recommend him though. I agree with you on this. My deepest condolences to her because I don’t know how I could handle that. My thoughts go out to you all. ❤️

9
u/[deleted]
Thu Jul 18 01:28:46 2019 UTC
*
(6 children)

I know someone who had surgery in Australia and it was also not possible to create a complete vagina this happens with every surgeon potentially at some point. The Melbourne doctor said it would have been unsafe to just as Chet did in this circumstance which I totally get is distressing. But if its not possible it's not possible and that's not really Chets fault.

I work in healthcare and surgery is always partially exploratory as you never know what you'll find. Which is why you sign all that paperwork stating what the operation is but that things essentially might not go as planned.

As far as doing preop testing to detect abnormalities that's not done anywhere else so yes it would have potentially detected the issue but not something Chet can be blamed for when it's not standard to test for such unusual issues.

Could support and communication have been better, I'm absolutely sure it could have been but I think things here (I'm currently a Chet patient in Thailand recovering) are more traditional than in Western healthcare where things are more collabarative. Well sometimes even in the west it's awful, my mum had a test for breast cancer the doctor came in to the room and said you have cancer and we're going to take your breast off tomorrow and walked out the room. No chance for questions or any empathy from the doctor. Now that isn't Chet, I've found him to be gentle and kind with good English but in my experience as a nurse it's my job to pick up the pieces after the patient has been given bad news. And to help them work their way through it to the point they can then speak to the doctor again. Now that's the issue with having surgery in a country where not every nurse speaks your language fluently, they might provide good care but the emotional support might be lacking which I'm sure causes them pain in not being able to provide it fully.

I'm sure some will down vote me in the light of the other posts here but I think it's important to be realistic in what Chet is to blame for when he he's a first grade surgeon who due to the patients anatomy was unable to form the vagina. That's not his fault and it sounds like he did a good job with the vulva.

Now I'm completely sensitive to the distress of how this must have felt to go through, it's horrible and I hope she finds some peace in time.

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:28:39 2019 UTC
(5 children)

i'm not even sure that i can say that he's done a good jpb with the vulva... yes, it's still healing but it doesn't look natural at all... hell no. nothing like the pictures he shows. i'm sure if my wife ever has a correction surgery she would like to fix her vulva as well.
and i blame you peronally but as a nurse you're a part of that "medical ethics"... were the doctor can't be wrong because they're also human and anything can happen during the surgery. they could. and pretty often it's their fault. this situation COULD be prevented. even i now understand how related anal sex and vagina creation are. he's a surgeon, he made hundreds of these surgeries. he could check that. i'm sure it's not the first time he couldn't create a vagina, otherwise they wouldn't give pations that shit form to sign... And there're not so many reasons why complications could occur, I'm sure he knows all of them... It;s just easier and cheaper this way...

3
Mon Jul 22 15:54:58 2019 UTC
*
(4 children)

It is still early days, it can take a year from what others have said before the final cosmetic results are settled. I hope she's happy with the vulva at least by then.

I'm sorry I don't get what you mean by blaming me personally and what you mean about medical ethics. Please explain as I don't see how this is my fault.

I know you're angry and so is your partner but no other surgeon screens for these rare issues, I just think it's unrealistic blaming Chet for not doing something when no other surgeon does it either. If you'd gone to another surgeon you'd still be in the same situation. And like I said in a previous post Chet knew that it was safer precisely bevause he's done thousands of these ops and knew not to create a full length vagina due to the significant risks involved. Maybe another surgeon would have been more aggressive and your partner might have ended up in ICU with complications up to and including death. Believe me the outcome could have been much worse.

All patients everywhere in the world before every surgery sign similar forms. Bevause surgery is always partially exploratory and you never know what you'll find or be able to do until the patient has had knife to skin.

I'm really sorry you're both suffering through this but I don't see that you're being realistic and pragmatic about what could have happened and unfairly blaming Chet and now I'm to blame too.

Now I totally get that and it's not a critiscism of you or your partner, anger, grief and suffering will do that and you're perfectly entitled to feel all those emotions.

I hope you will continue to post updates on how you're partner is doing and if any other surgeon thinks it's something they want to take on.

2
OP
Thu Jul 25 12:38:48 2019 UTC
(3 children)

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,190787.msg1699717.html#msg1699717
this post is from 2015. 4 fucking years ago... and if you read comments you can see that that girl was not the first one (and i'm sure not the last). it's common for chet to blame a patient of having anal sex when he failed to create a vagina. so there're two possible options: 1. anal sex actually CAN cause complications (because he says that to his unsuccessful patients quite often). then why he doesn't require a proctologist check before the surgery?! why he doesn't even ask about patient's sex life?! most trans women have anal sex, why not to ask or warn??? i find it absolutely irresponsible and unprofessional. 2. anal sex doesn't cause complications. then he just uses this excuse when he didn't bother to try enough creating a vagina and just doesn't want to admit it... it's also irresponsible, unprofessional and totally unacceptable.
and actually i can blame Chet for not doing something when no other surgeon does it either... first of all because it was not the first case in his personal practice and he KNEW that might happen even if it's rare. and also because that's not an excuse... "others don't do it so i won't either"... you're responsible for your patients, that's you who fail them. not others.
by "medical ethics" i mean that you'll always defend a doctor (or other medical worker). it's not your fault, no. but you do it now.

2
Thu Jul 25 12:56:30 2019 UTC
(2 children)

I made a formal complaint against one of the doctors I was working with last month. I made a formal complaint against my new GP last year. I've made formal complaints against two nurses and informally have had words with managers about other doctors and nurses. My first responsibility is to my patients and I take that very seriously. I don't like reporting people but it is my professional responsibility to do so and that overcomes any loyalty I have to other staff.

So please stop being so quick to judgement thinking you know me !!!

You're not listening to what I'm saying, no other doctor checks for these issues, no matter who you went to you'd be stuck with the same situation only for the reasons I gave before possibly in a worse position.

I'm more than happy to converse with you but enough with the personal attacks and just rehashing the same stuff. No matter how much you want to change things your partner had a physical limitation in her tissues that prevented Chet forming a vagina, that's not Chet's fault. It's just pure bad luck and I'm sorry for her that that's the case. Was it caused by anal sex maybe, is that your fault because you were having anal sex with her perhaps technically speaking yes but you weren't to know so I don't see that you're to blame in any vindictive sense. I get why you're both angry but attacking me for ridiculous reasons and Chet for doing as good a job as he was able to in the circumstances gets you nowhere.

1
OP
Thu Jul 25 13:04:55 2019 UTC
(1 child)

i apologize for attacking you and jumping to conclusions. but i stand by my opinion about chettawut and his responsibility. it might be other doctor. we’ll never know. or the other doctor might try better. bc now after the research i find more and more stories about chet giving up during a surgery than any other doctor. but anyway it was him who did a terrible thing that could be avoided even if it’s not a common practice...

1
Thu Jul 25 13:38:52 2019 UTC
*
(0 children)

You have no idea whether Chet gives up quicker than other doctors, you have anecdotes and a few people's opinions. As someone who has done research trust me you actually have no evidence, especially in light of the fact that Chet has done this op thousands of times and other doctors possibly only dozens. Statistically in that light Chet and the other Thai surgeons who've been operating for decades are going to have a higher actual number of complicated surgeries (who might then complain on Reddit) but it doesn't prove what their actual complication rate is which is the key statistic. I've certainly read about American surgeons who I get the feeling have higher dissatisfaction rates but it's a feeling and there's no way you or I are going to actually know. And while Reddit is a great place to do "research" it's all anecdotal and you have to look at what you read in a balanced manner and considering the huge amount of ops Chet has done there really aren't statistically that many who seem to be unhappy with his work.

I get why you're angry but like the jumping to conclusions about me you're also jumping to conclusions about the things you read on the internet and how that applies to what happened to your partner. And as I said I'd take Chet giving up when he did over another surgeon who might have pushed on with disastrous consequences. That is the mark of a good surgeon not a quitter.

No other surgeon anywhere else in the world checks for your partners rare issue preoperatively. It's highly unfair to blame Chet for not doing so when it's not a standard part of the SRS pre op checks anywhere else that I know of. But possibly in anger I would be thinking the same thing in your shoes but eventually I would accept it would have been the same result no matter which SRS surgeon did the op and not something Chet was negligent for.

If you're so convinced Chet was negligent have you made a formal complaint to the The Medical Council of Thailand or whoever manages complaints about doctors?

I have no skin in this game just because I had surgery with Chet, if I thought Chet was negligent from the information you posted then I'd be totally behind you. But based on my own internet "research" and decades of experience in healthcare and seeing complications and fuck ups I just don't see that Chet is clinically negligent in this case, could communication and support have been better I'm quite willing to believe it could have been.

3
u/atlshuizhang
Thu Jul 18 16:54:54 2019 UTC
(4 children)

I think if I were your wife, I would be terrified to think whether you would still accept me, whether you would divorce me, or treat me badly, or even abuse me because I couldn't give you the pleasure you expected. I would be terrified to think whether you thought I had a botched surgery and no other person would want me so even if you treated me badly I had no better choice but to accept the abuse and stay with you for the rest of my life. Being trans is already quite tough, and having had a botched surgery adds even more to it. I doubt if your wife would have the energy and courage to even think about what I just said, let alone open her mouth to ask you. Would you be willing and able to tell her and also yourself that you would love her no matter what? Probably such reassurance is what your wife needs the most at the moment.

3
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:07:46 2019 UTC
(3 children)

i love her no matter what, i will love her no matter what, and i tell her that every day. i genuinely don't care how her genitals look like as long as she's happy (but unfortunately she's not). we started dating before her surgery and i'd be totally ok if she decided not to do any surgeries at all. i just love her how she is.

and she has enough self-respect not to stay with an abusive partner (which i'm not) just not to be alone...

1
Mon Jul 22 16:57:39 2019 UTC
(2 children)

That sounds pretty sweet :) And how is she now? Does she take your love as love, or just some words you say to make her feel good? Does she still blame you and herself?

3
OP
Mon Jul 22 17:02:43 2019 UTC
(1 child)

she tries to go on with her life, asks me to do research, to support her in fighting with nhs... usually it’s like she’s +/- ok for about 10 days, and then something triggers her and it starts all over again: she hates and blames everything and everyone, doesn’t have any hope and wants to die. then after about a day she pulls herself together and starts to live again... until the next triggering episode... it’s called grieving i assume. she needs a lot of time to heal.

1
Mon Jul 22 17:31:21 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Um, I agree with you. She may need a lot of time to heal.

You can't change what have already happened, but you can keep loving her :) Feel loved yourself too, like from your friends or some therapists, otherwise you'll be too stressed to be loving towards her.

u/[deleted]
Fri Jul 19 03:24:42 2019 UTC
(2 children)

[deleted]

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:02:16 2019 UTC
(1 child)

thank you. she definetly doesn'r want colon vaginoplasty for many reasons. i'm now researching peritoneal option though she's very sceptic about it as well.

3
u/throwchettaway
Tue Jul 23 16:06:44 2019 UTC
(1 child)

Chett goes from extremely friendly and nice when everything is good, to blaming you and denying responsibility when things go wrong. That happened to both the girls that had surgery at the same time as me.

1
Wed Jul 31 18:50:27 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Could you tell what their issues were ?

2
u/Valyrie2083
Fri Jul 19 18:57:32 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Yeah, this has solidified it for me. There's no chance in hell that I'm going to those people. Dispassionate assholes.

2
u/[deleted]
Sat Jul 20 01:07:03 2019 UTC
(3 children)

I've been hearing great things about bluebond-langner in NYC for revisions, too. Not sure enough information to know if she'd be the best in this particular case, but worth a shot. All the best to you and your wife, I can't even imagine.

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:00:20 2019 UTC
(2 children)

thank you, i looked throug their website but there are literally no contact details except phone numbers...

1
Mon Jul 22 16:18:20 2019 UTC
(1 child)

Sorry I should have checked that before I commented, but I can't find it either! I'm trying to get ahold of the office as well to ask a couple questions...I'll figure it out this week and PM you the info

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 16:20:33 2019 UTC
(0 children)

thank you!

2
u/sg2k19
Sun Jul 28 18:17:48 2019 UTC
(1 child)

Omg... I also had surgery with Chettawut on March 12th! In the afternoon...but they called early in the morning to move it up a few hours. Guess I know why now :(

I'm really sorry. Although my surgery went really well there were a lot of things I found unprofessional about Chettawut and his staff. Your last paragraph is spot on. His practice regarding adhesions is totally unacceptable.

Your wife should talk to Djordjevic, Bluebond-Langner, and others about a Davydov pull-through. Maybe also sigma-lead with Kaushik. It's important she know she absolutely can still have a perfect vagina. Many other women have been there.

2
u/sg2k19
Sun Jul 28 18:22:31 2019 UTC
(0 children)

I'm so fucking mad the nurses tried to throw you out after he told her.

3
u/eightful
Wed Jul 17 18:31:01 2019 UTC
*
(42 children)

unused salt merciful divide quicksand steer swim tan dinosaurs humor

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2
Wed Jul 17 20:12:40 2019 UTC
(14 children)

It really is sad. But isn't it a risk you take when you simply have surgery? Like, in most of the places around the world?

3
Thu Jul 18 01:53:26 2019 UTC
*
(12 children)

stocking bake subtract tease possessive rainstorm many consist forgetful unwritten

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9
Thu Jul 18 04:24:27 2019 UTC
(4 children)

Do you have evidence that US surgeons do preoperative imaging or exam to detect the OP's issue, or is this just conjecture based on the US being a "developed country"?

-2
Thu Jul 18 04:36:30 2019 UTC
*
(3 children)

boat literate society attempt jobless bake pocket toy scary berserk

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2
Thu Jul 18 04:56:32 2019 UTC
(2 children)

Conjecture is just conjecture and proves nothing and helps no one. I've had surgery on four continents and I don't think the surgical and nursing care I've received in Thailand is appreciably different to what I've received in Australia, Korea, Europe or South America.

And I've had a lot of surgery, 3 trans related surgeries and 13 non related. And I work in healthcare (ICU, emergency and anaesthetic recovery) so I think I'm a fairly good judge of knowing when I'm receiving adequate care in a safe environment

And I would still choose Chet again over any other surgeon for SRS.

1
Thu Jul 18 05:28:53 2019 UTC
*
(1 child)

reply tidy crowd sheet wakeful steer cough public license berserk

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1
Thu Jul 18 05:35:39 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Yeah me too, it sucks that not everyone is so lucky although obviously in this specific situation luck had nothing to do with it.

Working in anaesthetic recovery I'm well aware of the myriad of things that can go wrong when someone has surgery but thankfully these days significant issues are uncommon. I think in part as doctors have gotten better at knowing when to stop and not continue planned procedures beyond the level of safety.

4
Thu Jul 18 04:51:45 2019 UTC
(6 children)

How would a US surgeon have handled it better? US surgeons also don’t require, or even ask for, rectal exams before starting surgeries either. No SRS surgeon does anywhere. While I feel bad for the OP, she would have encountered this problem regardless of the surgeon she went to.

1
Thu Jul 18 05:27:48 2019 UTC
*
(0 children)

desert tender late sophisticated humor touch recognise slim ripe upbeat

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0
Thu Jul 18 06:23:37 2019 UTC
(4 children)

How would a US surgeon have handled it better?

By stopping, instead of giving her a no depth vulva that she didn't ask for?

8
Thu Jul 18 07:23:26 2019 UTC
(2 children)

Stopping? How? Have you seen videos of how these surgeries are done? They begin by slicing the penis. They can’t just stop once they begin. And the rectal protrusion would have been detected only after the penis was all sliced up and the vaginal canal was about to be created.

0
Thu Jul 18 07:58:00 2019 UTC
(1 child)

I just struggle to believe that it is world wide practice to commence with irreversible aspects of surgery before ensuring that the desired surgery is viable... I mean the whole point is the vaginal canal...

7
Thu Jul 18 08:04:03 2019 UTC
(0 children)

I have a friend who went to Dr McGinn (a US surgeon with a long-standing excellent reputation) and she ended up with only 3 inches of vaginal depth because of an existing adhesion. It was discovered during the surgery.

SRS surgeons worldwide do not do full abdominal and rectal scans before surgery. It is common practice not to do them. There are sometimes things that are only discovered during the surgery itself. This is one of the dark secrets of SRS that is not talked about in public.

1
Thu Jul 18 03:02:51 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Yes, there are always risks, but we can't gauge those risks if people aren't met with empathy when they share them. Talking about such disappointments requires deep vulnerability and there are things I'm careful about mentioning these days because of experiences both with cis people not understanding why people would take such risks, and with trans people intent on downplaying risk to the extent of saying I could not have experienced anything bad at all, or even that I deserved what I got. While every step I've taken has absolutely been worth it, some things have also come with greater cost than I hoped; it is painful to open up about that and have that story rejected.

Wed Jul 17 21:17:00 2019 UTC
(26 children)

[removed]

1
Wed Jul 17 23:19:25 2019 UTC
(1 child)

r/traa

3
u/Talran
Wed Jul 17 23:31:45 2019 UTC
(0 children)

<3

Wed Jul 17 23:36:27 2019 UTC
*
(23 children)

[deleted]

3
Thu Jul 18 08:54:59 2019 UTC
(0 children)

depth is lacking and it also depends heavily on how much material you have beforehand.

By what standard?? 6" of depth is very common, and that's quite a bit more than cis women. I'm a small in general (5'2") and was never the most well endowed person, and I still ended up with a bit over 15cm (that's 6" if you're too lazy to look up the conversion.) I didn't require an extra graft from anywhere, either.

placement of neovagina is not the same as natal women...

I don't know where you heard that horseshit from, but it's flat out incorrect. I don't think you actually know how vaginoplasty works.

Thu Jul 18 03:07:52 2019 UTC
(3 children)

[deleted]

1
Thu Jul 18 03:11:42 2019 UTC
(2 children)

Sure.. it is over simplifying things.. this is Reddit.

I prefaced by saying This is my opinion smh

It’s honest.. with the research I’VE done and with MY opinion.

Thu Jul 18 03:20:52 2019 UTC
(1 child)

[deleted]

2
Thu Jul 18 06:31:34 2019 UTC
(2 children)

results are good... but they’re never going to look 100% like a natal vagina

Aside from the scars, there's nothing clockable about my PI vagina.

depth is lacking and it also depends heavily on how much material you have beforehand

This one is sort of true, but still, my depth is within cis ranges, so I'm not sure that "lacking" is the right way to describe it

placement of neovagina is not the same as natal women... and some sex partners might realize this and it’ll clock you as trans.

I'm not sure what you mean by this one? Mine is positioned exactly where it should be...

The Thai method does offer some advantages, but they're not quite as clear cut as you make out.

2
Thu Jul 18 07:22:11 2019 UTC
(1 child)

Aside from the scars, there's nothing clockable about my PI vagina.

I didn’t mean there’s no good results, I’ve seen some amazing results from PI, but I’ve also seen a lot of SRS results from western doctors... that look... off.. at least in my opinion... and OVERALL Thailand seems to have better results aesthetically... ... which some people (like me) have as the #1 priority over sensation or function.

This one is sort of true, but still, my depth is within cis ranges, so I'm not sure that "lacking" is the right way to describe it

But when did you do it? Like how long were you on HRT ?

I’ve been on it for more then 8 years... the material I have has shrunk by a signifiant amount.. and I’d prefer at least 6” minimum... every western doctor I’ve talked to said it’s not possible with what I have.. and I could only maybe get 3”... if even that.... I’d be devastated

I'm not sure what you mean by this one? Mine is positioned exactly where it should be...

Biological vaginas are positioned slightly differently on the body then the penises on men.. so a PI will result in a vagina that’s in a slightly different position on the body then natal women

3
Thu Jul 18 07:45:41 2019 UTC
(0 children)

OVERALL Thailand seems to have better results aesthetically.

I agree. I just think it's important to point out that prettier does not automatically equate with "more cis like"

But when did you do it? Like how long were you on HRT ?

Fair. I was only on HRT for 16 months at the time and I had pretty much zero atrophy.

so a PI will result in a vagina that’s in a slightly different position on the body then natal women

That's... not how it works though? My vagina is not placed where my penis was. My vulva and vagina are cis analogous

3
Thu Jul 18 02:52:08 2019 UTC
(11 children)

1000x better? I’m sorry but you don’t seem to know what you are talking about at all. Stop sucking the Thai doctors dicks.

Thu Jul 18 03:12:47 2019 UTC
(9 children)

[removed]

Thu Jul 18 03:26:00 2019 UTC
(3 children)

[deleted]

-1
Thu Jul 18 03:51:27 2019 UTC
(2 children)

A lot 🤷‍♀️

Thu Jul 18 04:37:17 2019 UTC
*
(1 child)

[deleted]

4
Thu Jul 18 03:18:34 2019 UTC
(4 children)

Yeah as expected you are here to troll and spread disinformation. PI all depends on the surgeon. Sensation is off the charts (if I had any more it would be unpleasant) my depth is 6inches my vagina looks Cis... my surgeon even explained he was able to achieve over 6 inches in girls with a micropenis - direct contradiction to everything you’ve said, and you’ve judged me on a trans timeline post that has 600 upvotes, gotcha. Where’s your photos? Stop hiding behind the computer screen you neckbeard.

P.s - I honesty can’t remember the last time I’ve been misgendered.

Thu Jul 18 03:50:56 2019 UTC
(3 children)

[removed]

3
Thu Jul 18 03:52:58 2019 UTC
(2 children)

I post on timeline to inspire baby trans (aka people early in transition) When I was at that point trans timelines gave me hope and inspiration that transitioning and passing was indeed achievable. Okay done with the troll now, nice talk

Thu Jul 18 03:58:36 2019 UTC
(1 child)

[removed]

3
Thu Jul 18 03:59:58 2019 UTC
(0 children)

🍪 here’s your cookie

1
u/Talran
Wed Jul 17 23:46:32 2019 UTC
(1 child)

It's referencing an anime where Thai docs slam out amazing surgeries like over a weekend or something that take 30 year old ripped mob guys and turn them into teenager looking idols. (So yes, far superior looking imo; just cultural differences and such like bedside technique is not something SEA specialize in like with western hospitals, but many I see are just as or more competent with actual treatment)

1
Thu Jul 18 02:54:02 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Lol you aren’t even post op and spreading disinformation ... nice!

1
OP
Mon Jul 22 15:49:54 2019 UTC
(0 children)

i can testify that it doesn't look as natal vulva at all. like no way anyone who's seen more than one vulva could tell that it looks like cis woman's one... no.
depth also depends on initial penis size... they could use skin grafts but come on, everyone can...

1
u/Laura_Sandra
Wed Jul 31 01:56:02 2019 UTC
*
(0 children)

I'm really sorry to hear what happened. But please be aware you're not the only ones looking for a revison, and there are a number of options in such cases.

Here a number of options may be included. As others have pointed out, Bluebond-Lagner may be helpful. If she is difficult to reach, trying to go there in person may be an option. The person in the thread did that and was able to be seen.

And making a few photos, detailing what happened and asking a few other surgeons what their opinion would be might be an option too. In Europe genitalsurgerybelgrade may also be a possibility, they have also done a number of revisions.

And concerning looks after a number of months they can change. Swelling can still go down, etc. And there may also be the possibility to have a revision in case, maybe it could even be done with other procedures if it would be necessary. If its done alone, its often an outpatient procedure.

I'd say keep going and keep looking for ways. Many people found ways for an improvement eventually.

hugs

0
u/tatteredbeing
Wed Jul 17 18:54:52 2019 UTC
(0 children)

Theres a colon method she can consider to line her vaginal canal.

Its superior to a skin graft canal anyways IMO so theres that.

You should research it and see if it's a option for yall.

-1
u/KyubiNoKitsune
Wed Jul 17 23:24:46 2019 UTC
(7 children)

What about that hospital that does the fish skin vaginas? It's a real and valid option and it'd probably end up being better than a Thai one.

The fact that the wall between the rectum and the prostate is so thin will make it more difficult though.

Tell her not to despair, there are reasonable solutions to this.

2
OP
Wed Jul 17 23:26:12 2019 UTC
(5 children)

i’ve heard about that fish skin method but are you sure it’s not experimental and they really offer it to patients? where do they do it?

3
Thu Jul 18 03:12:01 2019 UTC
(0 children)

It has just recently been used for a trans SRS revision for the first time:

https://nypost.com/2019/05/16/transgender-woman-gets-new-vagina-made-from-fish-skin/

However I believe there is still only the one doctor doing it so who knows how long his wait list is.

2
Wed Jul 17 23:31:12 2019 UTC
(2 children)

To be honest, I don't know, you would need to research it. I think it's experimental in terms of using it to create a vagina but the fish skin part has been used quite a lot because of the way it allows the flesh to heal.

I thi k for a situation like this they may consider it if you ask.

3
Thu Jul 18 08:15:06 2019 UTC
(1 child)

There's nothing much to research. It made the papers, but there's little published on it. There always seems be some new procedure coming, which somehow doesn't match expectations in the end. Chances are its another.

1
Sun Jul 21 00:06:04 2019 UTC
(0 children)

https://www.doctoralia.com.br/leonardo-bezerra/ginecologista/fortaleza https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Leonardo_Bezerra http://drleonardobezerra.com/

Its been done 10 times so far. Contact him and see what he says. Honestly if her life is so over because of it, any chance of repairing the damage is worth perusing.

1
Thu Jul 18 03:54:57 2019 UTC
(0 children)

It's still very experimental and will likely be years before it's a viable option. Either a peritoneal or belly/thigh skin graft revision is going to be a much more accessible option right now.

-12
u/throweyesway77
Wed Jul 17 21:56:31 2019 UTC
*
(0 children)

Not to make light of the situation... but this is why I’m kind of glad I have really bad sex dysphoria.

I had anal once 6 years ago, and it was one of the most traumatic things I’ve ever experienced. I’m straight too... I just don’t think I’m a straight woman who likes anal.

I’m prob still going with Chett

1
u/Dry_Roll_6645
Fri Mar 10 19:44:19 2023 UTC
(0 children)

Hi I’m sorry to ask but because Chet said it was a failure did he stop half way? Or left the operation unfinished? What did it mean?