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Anecdote: I used to play regularly (mostly daily) with very large toys, along with sex with my bf, but coincidentally toned it down about a year before surgery with Dr Brassard due to antidepressants -- down to more like monthly.
It caused no issues that he reported.
It would be amazing to have more information/discussion on it, because it was unheard of to me until that post.
My thinking is this is a rare case and that possibly anal sex had an effect but that this poor girl had potentially unusual anatomy and possibly tissue that was more easily damaged than most.
But it's all supposition, I think the only way we can get an idea of the prevalence of this is to actually have people ask SRS surgeons their thoughts on how common this is and indeed how common it is not to be able to form the vagina and to report back.
Unless people here have direct experience and can adequately explain it then we're just going to go round in circles frightening ourselves with comments from armchair experts.
I personally know one girl who had surgery in Melbourne, Australia who woke up from surgery and was told it'd been impossible to create more than a limited length vagina due to her internal anatomy. Attempting to give her a full length vagina would have been dangerous and as an ICU nurse believe me you don't want potentially life threatening or life changing complications down there. I'd rather have a vulva without a vagina than be dead or have to live the rest of my life with a stoma bag.
I'd rather have a vulva without a vagina than be dead or have to live the rest of my life with a stoma bag.
Sure, but better still would be the option to just keep your original equipment...
I'd be devastated if I lost functioning (non ideal) equipment to replace it with equipment I can't use...
And honestly, I think I'd take the stoma bag over a zero depth vagina...
Yeah but by that point in the op you no longer have that option as the penis has been deconstructed. You can't just stop and go back to how things were. SRS isn't like most other surgeries in thst respect where surgeons do sometimes have the option of stopping and offering the patient alternatives.
And at least she has a functional vulva capable of orgasm, plenty of cis women can't have vaginal penetration as they don't have one or have conditions that prevent it. It sucks but it is what it is.
I could live without a vagina (although I'd be sad not to have one) and it's perfectly possible to live with a stoma but it's a major hassle (what to do if it leaks in a public place and you find yourself with poo running down your clothes) you'd need to plan your life around. I've changed lots of stoma bags, it's really not something I'd want to have permanently for the sake of a vagina.
I waited my whole life for GRS... If a stoma was the price, I'd still pay it...
A no depth vagina would leave me with endless dysphoria, and the whole point of going through the hell of GRS was to alleviate dysphoria...
plenty of cis women can't have vaginal penetration as they don't have one or have conditions that prevent it
Sure, plenty of cis women have pretty much every trait that trans women struggle with. None of them have the large collection of them that trans women do though...
And that's the thing I love and respect about my fellow human beings our differences. For you that trade off is acceptable for me me absolutely not and I totally empathise with and respect your view.
On your second point I'm not going to totally agree, sure we go through shit that cis women don't but a lot of our experiences are shared. But we're never going to have crippling period pain, endometriosis or the host of other gynae conditions or cancers they suffer. As much as I wish I had been born cis and would gladly risk those things we just don't share that suffering. It's easy up get caught up in our pain and not see others suffering. My mother died at 51 of breast cancer, the last time I saw her conscious I saw the fear and pain in her eyes not just for herself but for the two teenage kids (I was 25) she was leaving behind and her fear of what would happen to them. That happens every minute of every day all over the world and it's not something I'll experience as trans women have a lower breast cancer risk. We all suffer and it's not quantifiable who suffers most as we're individuals.
And as someone who has had nothing but love and acceptance during transition I can't say I've found transition that hard especially as I pass well enough that virtually everyone I tell is surprised. The decades of struggle not transitioning was the hard bit. Now I'm lucky I'm normal height, have dainty hands, look feminine and could afford VFS, if I were non passing things would be different and I'm sure people would have treated me quite differently. But for me being a transitioned trans women is the happiest time in my life.
I mean, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I pass, I'm post op, HRT has shrunk me to cis female height (albeit a tallish cis female), I've had VFS, I'm surrounded by love and support from friends and family, and my workplace has literally won awards for its trans inclusiveness.
Yet, I knew that I had to get GRS before I could even admit that I'm trans. I knew that I had to get it from the moment I discovered it was a thing. I'm a year post op, and I've never had penetrative sex, and possibly never will, but having a vagina (not just a vulva) is crucial to me... If I got so close, only to have it taken away from me literally at the last moment, I'd be resentful of my broken genitals, resentful that I lost my functional genitals, and still struggling with the dysphoria of not being "right".
The workplace where I transitioned was okay, well apart from me telling payroll I was changing my name with my bank and that I wanted to take small steps and not involve HR or anyone else, they said that's fine. Then the following week my manager comes to me confused with an email she got from HR with my new email address and log ins for all the systems I used at work. The email used all the right pronouns and my new name. So not only had payroll told HR they had then told IT. And all this in a fairly small rural hospital where I hadn't transitioned yet. Luckily I'm a fairly chilled chick but I was pissed off because I knew that not every trans person would be. I think lessons were learned as my senior manager went off and had words in ears.
I get the whole package is important to you, for me genital dysphoria was never a big thing. My dysphoria was not being a girl or seen and treated as one. I'm more than glad my bits are gone and I have a vulva and vagina but I could live without a vagina. I would feel less satisfied but it wouldn't cause my any significant distress just to have a vulva.
But then I'm gay so for me it's not a major issue. I really hope you can get to the point of netting someone and being treated like a lady.
I really hope you can get to the point of netting someone and being treated like a lady.
That's one of my problems. The last thing on earth I want is some guy treating me "like a lady". I want a partner, an equal, a best friend, someone that I can open my soul to that will open their soul in return.
The last thing I want is a stoic, emotionally walled off chivalrous protector, which rules out most men I know of my generation...
Hell yeah, I didn't mean it in an patriarchal way. I meant to write getting not netting.
All those things I want too, when I dated women as a "guy" I wanted a partner, an equal but then really I was a girl so obviously I'm not going to be bagged with toxic masculinity.
You're in Australia aren't you? So I get where you're coming from as I find Australian men a bit neanderthal compared to what I knew back in Europe. It shocked me when I first arrived how blokey the culture is on every level of society.
Things are better in Scotland, the leaders have changed but recently at one point the Scottish First Minister (basically our PM) was and still is a woman and half the cabinet were female. The leaders of the next two biggest parties (one of which is the right wing conservative party) were lesbians and the fourth biggest party was led by an openly bisexual man. I look at Australian politics and weep at how backwards it is compared to my birthplace. Not just in progressive terms but in other ways like Scotland recently generated enough wind power to power every home in Scotland twice over because our government can think more than one election cycle into the future.
Yeah, I'm in Australia, and the "blokey" men are exactly the problem! Eucchhh... I can't think of a single local het guy of my age that is free of it...
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plenty of cis women can't have vaginal penetration as they don't have one or have conditions that prevent it
I don't think we have the same definition of "plenty"
There's billions of women in the world, so we're talking millions of women who can't have vaginal sex. I think millions qualifies as plenty.
Yes, it can happen anywhere, including a well developed modern western country like Australia. It’s not an issue with Thailand or Thai surgeons.
Exactly and I would trust the well known Thai surgeons like Chet or Suporn over a western surgeon everytime as they've done the op thousands of times which very few western surgeons if any could claim. Which isn't to say a competent western surgeon isn't safe.
At the end of the day things can go wrong in any operation and things might not turn out as expected depending on so many factors.
I worked in one ICU in Oxford, England where the previous year a patient had bled to death during a routine central line (the big cannula with multiple tubes) insertion. Totally unexpected and rare and it turned out the patient had unusual vascular anatomy. Not the patient or doctors fault but an absolutely awful thing to happen.
I don’t have anal sex on a regular basis but I do consider myself to have a healthy sex life. I’ve had consultations with 2 doctors and have done research on others (all US surgeons) and have never run across anyone saying anal sex can lead to any future complications with SRS. Also looking up causes of anal protrusion/prolapse, anal sex has never been listed as a cause as far as I can tell. It’s definitely scary to think about but I don’t think I’d ever actually consider not being sexual active with my significant others.
I read the reddit post and maybe it was just something unfortunate that happened to her that wasn’t caught early, the doctor just didn’t handle the situation very well in my opinion. Hopefully a future revision for her will give her the results she wants. I’m sure we can put our collective mind together and give her some good research about it in the future.
Way back in years gone by, surgeons had to cut into someone first to determine what their innards exactly looked like and how they were positioned. Each operation had a substantial component of unknown adventure discovery to it. Imaging technology then was really limited in what level of detail could be seen inside the body.
Nowadays, ultrasound imaging, CAT scans, MRI, etc. are pretty darn good tools that allow surgeons to have an idea of what things look like inside , to reveal anything unusual, before slicing someone open. There's really no excuse not to at least do an ultrasound scan to check for irregularities as part of a presurgery exam. That could help prevent some showstopper conditions long before the day of surgery and also some shocking surprises like the supposed MtF vaginoplasty surgery a couple years ago that was stopped because the surgeon discovered a blind uterus with cervix, fallopian tubes and ovaries inside the patient who also had a penis and testes. Turned out the 30-something yr old patient was an XX/XY chimera with high degree of actual hermaphroditism and never knew it. i've tried to find reference to the article again since then, but it's been sanitized off the internet to protect the patient's privacy.
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I hadn’t heard of this and had been having daily anal sex with my boyfriend for many months prior to surgery. I have had no complications so far 3 weeks post op. My surgeon never told me about the possibility of it either - granted I had the penile inversion with peritoneal graft method done by dr ting in nyc so it could be a us vs Thai thing, or a specifically penile inversion thing?
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Hey thank you! I’m actually about to make a pretty extensive post on my recovery! That info about him not doing the p-graft was false though, I spoke with him and he doesn’t normally recommend it as the vagina will always be moist, not just upon arousal. That was a fine trade off for me personally so I went i with it. There also slightly (and I do mean slightly, very very slightly) higher risks associated. He does recommend the procedure though in cases (like mine) where there is less tissue to work with, because of that it was kind of a no brainer to go with it.
I'm interested in the story about your surgery with dr ting. I'm wondering if the peritoneal graft is something I can choose or if it's only used if I don't have the tissue for penile inversion
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I'm not even on a wait list yet. I gotta get insurance that will cover it because at the moment, I'm worth about -65000 dollars.
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Did Avenessian get clinical details from the surgeon who performed the fissure repair either through requesting or you getting the original surgeon to send it to them?
I think it'd be valuable for Avenessian to know although at the end of the day she'll only really know how things will work out during the op.
I wish you the best of luck and I hope you get a fantastic result.
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That's good, at least if she has more information it makes the surgery less stressful for her as they can have a plan for how they'll approach things.
And again good luck. I hope you have an easy recovery.
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Sounds good and at least you're going into it with an open mind with the understanding there's a possibility of issues but with a reasonable hope it'll go very well.
You should post more about how things have gone after the operation. Good luck... 😊
I was a cam girl on the side for two years before my surgery, so I did a lot of anal play and I stimulated my prostate a lot. I also had anal sex frequently, with guys who had penises up to 8” long. Also I had been playing with my ass since I was a teen also (so about 10 years).
I had penile inversion with Dr. Dugi in Oregon in May and my he didn’t say there were any problems creating a vaginal canal.
that's me again... someone posted that below my original post - https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,190787.msg1699717.html#msg1699717
this post is from 2015. 4 fucking years ago... and if you read comments you can see that that girl was not the first one (and i'm sure not the last). it's common for chet to blame a patient of having anal sex when he failed to create a vagina. so there're two possible options:
1. anal sex actually CAN cause complications (because he says that to his unsuccessful patiens quite often). then why he doesn't require a proctologist check before the surgery?! why he doesn't even ask about patient's sex life?! most trans women have anal sex, why not to ask or warn??? i find it absolutely irresponsible and unprofessional.
2. anal sex doesn't cause complications. then he just uses this excuse when he didn't bother to try enough creating a vagina and just doesn't want to admit it... it's also irresponsible, unprofessional and totally unacceptable.
This. Although it's not "didn't bother". He's very risk averse so will intentionally limit depth, even to the point of zero, in the presence of adhesions. No idea whether adhesions are caused by anal sex, but certainly sounds specious. He had this talk with me before surgery and said it occurs in about 4% of his patients, but no mention of anal so seems like a way to shift blame.
Why do you have to wait a decade?!
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I'm right there with ya, girl. U.S. healthcare is so shitty. I need bottom surgery, but it isn't gonna happen for at least a decade, unfortunately.
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Thank you, honey! We'll get through this.
I had to wait 18 years. Argentina where we have the most progressive identity Law in the world. Eighteen years.
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