Telling friends/relatives/workfriends my surgery was botched?

34
u/Federal-Tension
Fri Apr 17 13:57:54 2020 UTC
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(51 comments)

Some of my friends know about my jaw and chin surgery and were very sweet to send me a card with signatures and written messages. We were obviously hoping for the best and they expect to see me soon and catch up once lockdown is over. Should I tell them I got botched and have complications or pretend all went well?

I don't want them to feel sorry for me but at the same time I don't want compliments on a surgery gone wrong. They will obviously talk after. They are a group of beautiful women who work in the city some of which hold management positions at the firm I used to also work for. I feel somewhat embarrassed and feel like I should just cut ties but I somehow don't want to do that. Any advice would be fully appreciated. Thank you xxx.

botched #BartVanDeVen #2passclinic #plasticsurgeonwannabe #butcher #FartVandeVen #BarttheQuack

all 51 comments


11
u/[deleted]
Fri Apr 17 16:45:20 2020 UTC
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(0 children)

Definitely don’t cut ties! They can be your support network and you may need them. They obviously care about you if they sent you cards, and that won’t be affected by your surgery going well or not. It sounds like you’re emotional about it right now and need some time to heal physically and mentally.

If I were in your position, I may tell one person that I’m closest to in order to feel out their reaction and my own emotions. While they may not be able to fix anything, it feels nice to process it by telling someone else how you feel. I wish you the best!

9
u/TheScarlettHarlot
Fri Apr 17 20:16:05 2020 UTC
(3 children)

You really need to seek professional help over this. You’re projecting your insecurities into people in your life, making assumptions about their reactions, and considering cutting ties over things that have not happened yet.

Go talk to a professional about this so you can at least take the conversation out of your head.

2
OP
Fri Apr 17 20:20:00 2020 UTC
(2 children)

I did speak to a counsellor for anxiety but due to COVID I can't be seen and I am on a 3 month waiting list. I do need someone to talk to but other than my family there's no one else hence I talk to people here. The Samaritans don't answer as everyone is at home isolating. Is there a trans hotline for this particular issue I can call?

3
Fri Apr 17 20:20:50 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Lots of jobs have mental health lines for employees. Have you looked into that?

5
u/Maybebaby57
Fri Apr 17 18:07:13 2020 UTC
(1 child)

If you value them as friends and want to sustain a friendship, then don't blow smoke. Just tell them the surgery did not turn out as you have hoped and there were some complications, and you are looking into your options.

One thing people in management positions always appreciate is people who take ownership of problems and are able to take positive steps when confronted by unforeseen negative circumstances. They can only respect you more for being forthright and proactive!

1
OP
Fri Apr 17 20:11:26 2020 UTC
(0 children)

I do value them. I am just torn at the moment in measuring the pros and cons of telling or not telling them. If I see them they will ask about it and they may also have their own opinion on whether I look worse or not. Of course they will not tell me anything negative but they will be thinking it. I have the option of just making an excuse not to see them but they will interpret this as trying to cut ties and they may feel disappointed. They are good people so I do want to keep intouch. I just feel like I no longer fit in in our group anymore. I may try to delay seeing them until summer.

7
u/Femalenin
Fri Apr 17 15:06:03 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Maybe tell them about how you got the surgery, but unfortunately there were complications and things didn't go as planned. Tell only ones that you trust and ask them not to spread what you've told them.

6
OP
Fri Apr 17 15:57:28 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Thanks. I do feel that telling them maybe better. It is just so hard. I don't know how to go about it without bursting into tears and seeing the shocked look on their faces. I feel like my life suddenly turned downhill.

1
Fri Apr 17 17:34:18 2020 UTC
(0 children)

People are going to find out sooner or later. You can't be a hermit and stay locked up in a cave the rest of your life. It's better if they get a heads up on it now so it's not a surprise later.

Best of luck!

2
u/OhDaniGal
Tue Apr 21 03:46:53 2020 UTC
(5 children)

I second both points about not distancing from your support network and having therapy. Dealing with bad results is extremely hard.

Vaginoplasty went horribly for me. I got a poor result and it impacted me hard - some was risks and some was complications, all I had not known about as my therapist had insisted I was worrying about the impossible.

The two things I needed was a support network and good therapy. Sadly, both were absent. My support network vanished in outrage because, in being overwhelmed by the reality I believed impossible, I began to regret having surgery in the first place. My therapist of the time told me that regretting having it was still better than not having it and being happy.

I say this to illustrate the background of a point: it took several years that were extremely difficult for me but I did, ultimately, build a new support network and find a good therapist. That's the only reason I'm not still in tears for hours every night (I could force myself to get through work but that used up all of my energy.)

2
OP
Tue Apr 21 10:29:47 2020 UTC
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(4 children)

Did you trust the wrong surgeon like I did? And did you sue? I can't even look in the mirror without feeling fear or dread of what I'm about to see. The thought of how he was also able to cut my bones and destroy them during surgery gives me traumatic thoughts. I question myself how could I let this butcher touch my face.

I really think people should stay away from him. He is practicing on people by going beyond what he has trained to do. Heck I went to him for a procedure that he's supposed to be good at but he still messed me up. He has no sense of aesthetics.

He also does not care about his patients and only wants to collect fees. That's why he operates on 3 girls or more in one day. Avoid any FFS in Belgium is what I would say. I'll update this post once I see another surgeon here in my city for their thoughts about my issues.

2
Tue Apr 21 19:03:46 2020 UTC
(3 children)

I think I know the surgeon you mean. If so I had a consultation with him when he was in Atlanta during Southern Comfort. I had decided against him then because he insisted on including procedures I did not want and would only quote with that.

My situation is complicated. I had wanted a different surgeon, but I also had not wanted vaginoplasty in the first place.

My therapist and HRT doctors viewed vaginoplasty as a requirement of transition and phrased it as "completing transition." They even came to oppose BA and FFS, though they did not at first (that came after another local trans woman had both a) before having vaginoplasty and b) without first seeking the permission of the therapist and HRT doctors. The gatekeepers seemed offended that their authority over us had been subverted.) One went so far as to look up my salary and inform me that I was paid sufficiently that I had no excuse for not having vaginoplsaty.

So that was why I had it when I was at most ambivalent. I had a few surgeons I was interested in having do it and asked my therapist for letters for them. My therapist never said "no" directly but the entire session would be spent selling me on going to Canada or Serbia for it. Her argument was that those surgeons did work every bit as good but were far cheaper than the ones I wanted. After most of a year of that playing out in each month's session I realized: she's saying "no" just doing it in a weasel way. If I wanted a surgery letter my choices were those two surgeons or start over with another therapist, and the only other therapist in the area who would treat trans people would have required I wait at least two years more to be deemed eligible for a surgery letter (he required one year up front before he would write an HRT letter and one year during RLE but the word from those who started going to him after social transition was done was that he would agree they had satisfied those requirements but still defer the letter request until two years had passed of being under his care.) Further, I had no idea if the result would still be restricted to surgeons I didn't want and, if so, his choices could be even worse...

I picked Canada because at the day that was the available choice with the best reputation. My only real complaints with that surgeon was a) I could get no information until after the final payment was made, and b) the office staff gave brush-off responses when I sought to deal with a complication a year after surgery. (a) meant that I first saw some information about surgery and risks only after the point that deciding against it meant I would lose money ($10,000 at that point.) I did want to cancel but yielded to threats by my then-wife to escalate the abuse if I canceled and did not get every dollar back (yes, I should have divorced - I had tried and failed to escape the marriage six months earlier and was in the midst of couples counseling where the therapist agreed with my then-wife that every problem in the marriage was my fault.)

I had a poor result. It happens, and I don't think that the surgeon did anything wrong. Some of it might even be mental difficulty integrating my new genitals since I didn't want them in the first place and I have dysphoria about them (for several years, getting sensations from them, even the accidental ones that happen from shifting position while sitting, would make me extremely nauseous.) After surgery my therapist and doctor would admit that they were happy I went through it because they considered heavy regret and severely degraded mental health (to be blunt, I struggled with suicide ideation a month after vaginoplasty, which was extra fun because I needed in-patient mental health care but accessing that meant not being allowed access to dilate while in) to be better than being "happy with only being half-way transitioned."

2
OP
Tue Apr 21 19:51:19 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Oh wow I'm so sorry to hear that but thank you for sharing your story. Good call deciding to say no to the surgeon I vaguely mentoned. He wanted to butcher my ears too when I was there for my consultation. I said no as I did not want my ears messed with. I don't know if it contributed to him butchering me and hacking as much bone as he could. Your story sounds like you were pressured to have SRS. It is certainly not for everyone and nothing is wrong if you don't get it. I transitioned when I was 16 and years later (I am much older now) I still think SRS is not for me - I don't feel any less feminine. If you need to talk please feel to message me here. I also use an app called #selfcare from playstore which helps with my anxiety and depression. Again, thank you for sharing your story.

2
Wed Apr 22 00:59:50 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Yeah, I was pressured into it. I was out at 19, which was seen as super-young to even know in the mid-1990s. I didn't have vaginoplasty for over a decade. In the span of that time I had a progression of therapists who refused to write a hormone letter if I didn't want vaginoplasty (most in other states; I used to live near NYC.) I had come to realize that they had the power - either I gave in our I'd not have HRT and not have any way to work around it. My support network of the time, including my first wife, decided to believe Susan's Place crap about DIY - where being denied HRT for years is better than DIY.

2
Tue Jun 2 09:07:13 2020 UTC
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(0 children)

"He wanted to butcher my ears too when I was there for my consultation. I said no as I did not want my ears messed with. I don't know if it contributed to him butchering me and hacking as much bone as he could."

Are you saying that you think asserting yourself might have led to the negative outcome you have, as though you set off some sadistically vindictive egomaniac for daring to challenge his expertise? That's sick... but possible!

I've had those thoughts about my nearly identical situation. At a minimum, I think such thoughts are a sign of how hard it is to process a surgeon's incompetence. It almost seems easier to believe they messed up deliberately than lacked any skill or were drunk or felt rushed or distracted or sneezed a bunch during your surgery or handed the tools over to someone else once you passed out so they could go play golf or whatever. Otherwise, how could we have been so naive to trust someone who sucks so badly?

These awkward feelings about surgical outcomes are difficult to discuss with friends and family. They want us to be happy and they want to hear how awesome it feels to make such a courageous, life-affirming decision. Pregnant women feel a similar expectation about loving their pregnancy. "OMG, it's the best thing. EVER!" In my experience, people don't know what to say when reality bites.

When meeting old friends, it's hard to ignore or contain my embarrassment. It seems they feel obliged to say "you look great!", but their awkward smiles betray them. Some old friends ignore how I look altogether, as though nothing is different. That can be pretty awkward in an elephant-in-the-room kind of way. It stings, not because I want praise or validation but because I just didn't want to look obviously unrecognizable and unreal, so when I clearly do, someone's gotta say something, right? At first, I'd say things like "I'm still healing" or "it hasn't quite turned out as planned", then shift topic. This was almost impossible to do for the first half-year. Now, 18 months later, I just bite my tongue.

The times I've shared my true feelings on this subject with friends & family, I haven't felt better afterward. I don't want to be perceived as ungrateful or vain, but this face is not at all what was promised to me - it's messed. People don't really know what to say to that. I feel robbed, assaulted, permanently damaged by some incompetent foc, er, doc.

Instead of the "excuse my face" type of comments that I use to make, I now just take whatever awkward feelings newly-acquainted old friends give me and focus on projecting the calmest energy I can. I look in their eyes and try to be present. Forget my face. So what. Maybe I was in a car accident. Refocus on their eyes. Breathe and... "What's new with you?! "

To do that, I meditate a bit, I exercise a bit, I overeat (the layers of fat do seem to round out the sloppy "craftsmanship" of the renovations I had done), and I focus on other things that make me happy. And if I can't be happy (and I've been depressed since my surgery), at least my years of denying my trans-ness helped me build skills in denying pain. I tap into those again.

I've also spent some time in front of the mirror trying to retrain my face muscles to pull my lopsided meat mask's marionette strings. It ain't pretty, but what else can I do?

Oh, well, one other thing is I stretch some of the areas he pulled too tight, asymmetrically. For example, both eyebrows belong on one's brow, not the forehead, ideally at the same level. The doc suggested Picasso-like placement of such features * might * be fixed by a lifetime of botox, not that he would supply it or guarantee that fix or anything. I've found that this situation can be partially corrected by repeatedly yanking down on the uppity side for a year or so. Remember, if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself!

Another thing that helps when meeting old friends - and I resent using this trickery because I gave our common surgeon specific restrictions on how far he could and couldn't go so that I'd look what I considered natural (he blatantly ignored everything I told him) - I do find that a bit of make-up can distract temporarily from the permanence of his incompetence. It sort of works on the uneven brow bossing he did (a large chunk of my orbital rim seems to have gone missing mid-surgery) and it even works with the hole that recently appeared in my forehead from bone being ground down too thin, unsurprisingly because doc said he didn't need a CT or even an x-ray before a type III revision, but hey, with a bit of concealer the light draws the divot outward, et voilà! T'es belle encore!

Note: concealer doesn't do much to hide damaged vocal cords, so if that happened to you, just avoid singing your favorite songs around your friends. Problem solved naturally! Don't forget to smile, especially if your lips are as lumpy as mine post-lipofilling. Smiling stretches the fat clumps out sort of smooth. And who doesn't like people who smile all the time?

As you can see, there are many ways to come to terms with the imperfections we've paid so much to receive. In my case, I know it's going to take time, energy and a whole lot of money that I don't yet have to fix them permanently, but I do have faith that I'll eventually figure out a way to make my situation better.

No matter what, I won't let the doc who messed up my face get the better of me.

1
u/dis-moi-la-verite
Fri Apr 17 17:03:40 2020 UTC
(11 children)

I don't have any advice or would know anything about what you should do but all I can say is that I sympathize and understand completely what it is like as someone who has had bad results myself. Putting one's hope into something that did not work out destroys you.

3
OP
Fri Apr 17 17:42:42 2020 UTC
(10 children)

Which doctor did you go to and did you file a claim? Some surgeries are fixable especially if the surgeon didn't cut too much. Mine is unlikely except if I get jaw implants but even that may not fix me completely. Nose, boobs and parts of the body can be fixed.

1
Fri Apr 17 21:26:22 2020 UTC
(9 children)

FacialTeam. Not yet, it's still early and I don't really have any energy to do anything. I am guessing you went with dr Bart, what did he say?

2
OP
Fri Apr 17 21:46:19 2020 UTC
(8 children)

I thought they were good? Are you unhappy with the results cause they are too subtle? Mine are actual complications and I wish I was given subtle changes as I did not need a drastic change. I will reveal everything after I see another surgeon here in my city to confirm my fears. I'll also write a review by then.

I'd like to share a pic of the face he ruined before I had the surgery, I just don't know what could happen if I do. You may cry when you see pics of the face he ruined.

1
Sat Apr 18 04:49:03 2020 UTC
(7 children)

They were far too subtle but I am suspecting I'm such a bad case that no aggressiveness in the world can help, also the nose is a failure. I read your other comments in this thread and it sounds like you just had your surgery. The swelling I had the first month was so bad and asymmetrical that my lip could not be closed and nose and jaw had such asymetries that that I could not even physically put on glasses. This subsided with the next month. If you are recently postop the impression will change a lot soon and it is difficult the assess the results so early.

2
OP
Sat Apr 18 09:03:04 2020 UTC
(6 children)

Your case sounds better than mine. If they were too subtle you can always get revision and correct asymmetries. Mine's too extreme cause I was overcorrected. My jaw and chin are now too short/small when my face was already small. It was an oblong shape and now my jaw is like an ugly V shape with an abnormally round portruding tiny chin that sticks out of my face like a christmas ball with inward curves where it meets the jaw. Try imagine that plus the complications I have.

I'm more than 2 months now and what I see is what I get. Even if it changes it won't be much. And the quack had the audacity to say that my chin should look good.

You have plenty of options in the US like Paul Nasif for the nose or Harrison Lee for nose and jaw. I think being conservative is always better and less chances of irreversible damage. I was feminine before now I just look abnormal.

1
Sat Apr 18 11:55:44 2020 UTC
(5 children)

I doubt that there is a surgeon on this planet who can ever make me be seen as anything but an ugly man in a dress. I'll look into Korea, or muster up the strength to detrans. Anyway, I never looked so bad in my life as when recently postop, the swelling and the loose skin that is unadapted to underlying tissue makes it impossible to assess the results. Wait until the skin is better adapted until making too final a judgment of the results.

2
OP
Sat Apr 18 12:09:09 2020 UTC
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(4 children)

Until you see a surgeon and they all say nothing can be done there is still hope. If you have enough material to work on they can still refine the problems. I'm not sure about Korea as they seem more money hungry there than anything else.

1
Sat Apr 18 13:15:39 2020 UTC
(3 children)

I don't know but they seem to go for more extreme and less natural results. Natural is not something I can hope for anymore. Good luck with your recovery, in particular the part between jaw and chin you mention has improved a lot since surgery for me, but I still have a strange indentation there that has not resolved yet.

2
OP
Sat Apr 18 13:28:53 2020 UTC
(2 children)

What did FT say? I'm not familiar with their technique do they do T osteotomy for the chin and then shave the rest of the sides of the chin? Mine was advanced which possibly is the root of the trauma to my lip and this indentation. I want it reversed but I need to see what the surgeon says and how long I need to wait.

child comments hidden
u/[deleted]
Fri Apr 17 19:38:28 2020 UTC
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(24 children)

[removed]

4
Fri Apr 17 22:05:21 2020 UTC
(1 child)

if you talk ab it, ppl will eventually see you as sick and slowly cut you off as a friend

This advice is so fucking toxic, wtf is wrong with you? Get off Reddit and talk to a therapist so you can stop projecting your own mental baggage onto other people. Jesus.

-2
Fri Apr 17 23:45:46 2020 UTC
(0 children)

You can make your point in a better way. Please see rule 1.

  1. Be respectful to others, including identity and choices in surgery. Be polite and engage in civil discourse.
1
OP
Fri Apr 17 19:54:58 2020 UTC
(18 children)

I do somehow feel like their perception of me may change as the damaged case.

2
Fri Apr 17 22:06:33 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Please ignore what this person is saying. Their advice is incredibly toxic. If you want to keep certain details to yourself feel free to do that but don't do it because you think people are going to cut you off.

3
OP
Fri Apr 17 22:13:02 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Hey, I am not yet sure what to do exactly but what I may do is get treatment for the complications that I can treat after I get an appointment with a local surgeon. I may delay seeing my friends until summer and hopefully the discoloration on my upperneck from the botched lipo will be better or completely cleared. Hopefully, there is something that can be done to the bump under my chin as well. Then I'll give myself time to heal maybe a year depending on what the surgeon says before I go in reconstructive surgery.

I also need to find a job, save money and get therapy to help with my anxiety and depression. Thank you for the kind advice, even though we don't know each other 😊

Fri Apr 17 19:59:41 2020 UTC
(15 children)

[removed]

1
OP
Fri Apr 17 20:04:18 2020 UTC
(14 children)

The problem is when they see me they will ask me about it. They are supportive and were happy for me to do whatever. If I don't talk about it very much they may think something is off and they will possibly talk about it a little. If I refuse to see them then I may never have to see them again as I met them from my old workplace. But they may interpret that as my attempt to cut ties.

Fri Apr 17 20:19:42 2020 UTC
(13 children)

[removed]

1
OP
Fri Apr 17 20:22:02 2020 UTC
(12 children)

Well the shape of my face has changed and it is noticeably different in size. The chin has these inward curves where it meets the jaw. The discolorarion on my upperneck is definitely visible.

Fri Apr 17 20:27:42 2020 UTC
(11 children)

[removed]

2
OP
Fri Apr 17 21:48:45 2020 UTC
(10 children)

I'm scared of cosmetic procedures and never even had fillers before. Even if I will have to have surgery again I think I'll wait and let my face heal.

Fri Apr 17 21:54:04 2020 UTC
(9 children)

[removed]

1
OP
Fri Apr 17 22:04:34 2020 UTC
(8 children)

I think jaw and chin surgery can be traumatic to the tissues and repeated surgery on the area can affect muscles and nerves too much. I feel that as a consolation from this is that I can eat and talk normal. My mouth is not loopsided or my face paralysed. My lip is fucked up though and aesthetically, the surgery made me look ugly. I'm scared of ablative laser. I heard picosure may help and I really don't want a laser that will peel off skin. My upperneck already feels tight. I actually don't know why. It feels like the tissues have tightened cause the healthy fats were sucked out with lipo. I'm thin and had no excess fat under chin or jaw so I don't know what deemed it necessary. It is another miscalculation that Dr Quack made since he is too lazy to personalised his approach. By the way, I'd like to thank everyone here for responding to my posts. It really does help me to talk about my feelings here. You're all very kind.

child comments hidden
Fri Apr 17 23:18:59 2020 UTC
(2 children)

[deleted]

1
Fri Apr 17 23:48:55 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Please respect the rules of this sub.

  1. Be respectful to others, including identity and choices in surgery. Be polite and engage in civil discourse.