Dr. Wittenberg Vaginoplasty Consult (Warning: Long)

51
u/Forgetwhatitoldyou
Fri Aug 14 01:33:02 2020 UTC
*
(37 comments)

I haven't seen a lot of GCS consult write-ups, and I might (?) have a couple more of these - including meeting with Dr. Wittenberg's junior partner next week - so I was thinking I'd write up my notes, and see if there's anything others thing I might want to ask next time. My apologies if my terminology is not 100%; I'm not a medical professional, and took more notes than at anytime since college.

Stop HRT 2 weeks before. Will get medication for nerve pain, that also helps with the menopausal symptoms.

Has done 300 PI and 30 PPT surgeries.

Must be in San Francisco a month in total; bring enough meds for 6+ weeks

  • Arrive 1 week before for an in-office visit
  • Bowel prep one day before
  • PI takes 4-5 hours, PPT 6-7
  • 3 nights in hospital after; you'll feel like you need to pee/poop constantly; try to walk around a bit, can resume meds when you can walk up and down the hall 3 times. Walking is important, especially with PPT, for pain reduction due to gas buildup.
  • 3 follow-up visits, one each week, while in SF. Bladder "test drive" at the first, and also get materials and instructions for dilating
  • Week 2 you'll have lots of swelling. Use ice. Walk no more than 2 blocks. For half of patients some of the incisions will separate and need to be addressed.
  • Recommend 3 months off work:
  1. Dilation schedule is intense
  2. Sitting upright for long periods of time can be difficult
  3. Post-surgery depression/fatigue is common/expected, since the body is using resources to heal
  4. Can try to work around this if you work from home etc.
  • Month 3/6/9 follow-ups preferred to be in person, though it is possible to have a local provider (endo or gyno, likely) do this; Dr. W is available to answer any questions
  • 80% of swelling goes away within 3 months, the rest within a year; nerves can take longer.
  • For PPT would like to do additional follow-ups. Still working with the first cohort.

Dilating - 3/day for 3 months, 1/day for months 3-6, 1/48 hours for months 6-12, and 2/week after.

Complications/revisions

  • one year out, 4% of patients ask for a revision; note that it may be slightly assymetric
  • 90% of women get granulation scabbing.
  • Erectovaginal fistula - worst complication. 4 in her first 100 patients, 2 in the next 100, 0 after that. PI vs. PPT doesn't affect this. Stop dilation if this happens.
  • 1 patient had a bladder injury, repaired on its own
  • Can have pelvic and other pain - maybe talk to a pelvic PT in advance

Effects

  • Bladder infections will be more common
  • Pee can be a bit more of a spray, especially at first
  • Orgasms are different, and it can take over a year for nerves to heal. Only one patient of hers was completely unable to orgasm.

Depth - try to get ~13cm from PI, but no elasticity. PPT gets 12-16 in the OR, but post-op this tends to shrink a bit to ~12-13; this is similar to cis women.

PPT will have a bit of lubrication, but will still need lube for penetration and dilation. Don't need to douche as much as PI, and slightly more elastic. But will be thinner than PI.

PPT is more risky vs. the similar procedure for cis women. Cis women already have somewhat of a vaginal cavity, and have less muscle in the area in general. Same risk for PI though.

Electrolysis/LHR is preferred but less crucial for PPT. Requied for PI. The diagrams are slightly different.

Tunica vaginalis tissue is not used for the vaginal canal; it's under the labia. The canal is all peritoneal tissue.

The external parts are the same for PI vs. PPT.

Robotics are used for 100% of the surgery.

DEEP BREATH

I'm sure I'll think of questions over the next week, to ask when I meet her junior partner, Dr. Bonnington. Any questions others have I could also include.

If you have reasons why I should not consider Dr. Wittenberg and/or PPT, I'd appreciate hearing those as well.

Thanks for reading!

/u/2d4d_data

Edit a few days later:

I talked to the Physician Assistant at Dr. W's office, and she answered the remaining questions I had:

1. What are the major concerns for possible long-term possible negative outcomes specifically for PPT?

None, the major concerns would be sepsis or other complications soon after surgery. But there's no long-term data, unlike PI.

2. How long after surgery can I start exercising (i.e., running) again?

No sooner than 3 months. Pain or discomfort may limit this though. Can start walking soon after surgery (a day or two), and increase the distance over time. Would need to ramp up running distance over time, too, starting at 3 months. Swimming might be a better option to start.

3. Dr. Wittenberg mentioned that, for PPT, the vaginal walls are thinner and/or more prone to injury, compared to PI? Could you elaborate on that?

This is more of an issue during surgery, not really afterwards.

4. What should be done if/when I have granulation scabbing?

GS is proliferation of blood vessels in the vagina. This is benign, but can cause (painless) bleeding, such as blood on the dilator. Dr. W's office can cauterize at follow-up visits, or a local ObGyn can do this too. Usually gone by 1 year.

5. How often will I need to douche? Especially long-term? I’ve often heard that douching is not actually needed/healthy for cis women. Why is it needed/recommended post-GCS?

The cis vagina is slightly acidic, and so does not need to be douched. Trans vaginas don't have the acidity, so you need to douche to change the pH. Once/day immediately after surgery, eventually down to once/week for life.

6. What are the advantages/disadvantages of PPT vs. a hybrid peritoneal method?

Advantage: the whole vaginal linine is the same feeling/texture; hybrid can also create a bit of a constriction point in the middle of the vagina. Also, any hair regrowth from laser/electrolysis will be right at the entrance to the vagina, so accessible, though probably not comfortable to remove.

No particular disadvantages for PPT vs. hybrid.

7. What happens to the “extra” material that would be used for vaginal lining in PI that is no longer needed for that in PPT?

It is discarded.

8. For injections, what does “2 weeks without HRT” look like? Two weeks since the most recent injection, or 2 weeks since the end of the last injection cycle? My injection cycle is biweekly, so the latter option would mean 4 weeks since my last injection.

The last injection would be no fewer than 28 days before surgery.

all 37 comments



6
u/becoming-sky
Fri Aug 14 02:48:35 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Following. About the thinner tissue for PPT when compared to PIV. Does the extra muscle down there and thinner lining impact the vagina and cause and extra risk during dilation especially early on, penetrative sex or in generic physical activities? Why or why not?

5
Fri Aug 14 02:55:24 2020 UTC
(0 children)

I had the same question.

3
OP
Fri Aug 14 09:09:45 2020 UTC
(0 children)

I wasn't 100% clear on this either - I will ask!

3
u/notyourdonut
Fri Aug 14 01:39:48 2020 UTC
(9 children)

Exactly how my consultation went, and what I have experienced so far post op.

2
OP
Fri Aug 14 01:41:10 2020 UTC
(3 children)

How are you feeling today?

2
Fri Aug 14 01:57:16 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Good. No pain. Fairly mobile. Like, I can do half of things myself.

Had a mild fever do to the inflammatory response, it's like super common and Dr W lets you know about it post op.

2
OP
Fri Aug 14 02:02:27 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Sounds like you're doing not-bad for 3 days in. Yeah, it sounds like a lot of the body's responses are screwy for a while. All worth it though.

2
Fri Aug 14 02:17:11 2020 UTC
(0 children)

I love my vagina so much, I think it's the best ever.

1
OP
Fri Aug 14 01:40:34 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Good to hear!

1
Tue Sep 8 09:19:54 2020 UTC
(3 children)

Which Vaginoplasty did you went with? Penile Inversion or the one with Peritoneal ?

3
Tue Sep 8 10:03:01 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Penile inversion. I didn't want the extra scars or excess lubrication.

I talked to my cis friends and they all would rather be dry and use lube for sex, than wear a panty liner. They were pretty emphatic about it.

Penile inversion made more sense to me.

1
Tue Sep 8 10:04:52 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Would it be rude to ask the price you pay for surgery?

1
Tue Sep 8 10:06:02 2020 UTC
(0 children)

$2500 was my deductible. No idea what it would be out of pocket

3
u/Wittenbergthrowaway
Fri Aug 14 01:56:24 2020 UTC
(5 children)

I think shes amazing! Also the dilation schedule really isn’t as bas as it sounds as your minimum is only 10 min.

Check out my blog for my day to day healing with pictures and videos for more info!

https://mygenderconfirmation.wordpress.com/

1
OP
Fri Aug 14 01:58:38 2020 UTC
(4 children)

Thanks! Yeah, I'm not even worried about the 2/week "forever". Unless I'm doing a long-distance hike - and even then - I can deal.

2
Fri Aug 14 01:59:54 2020 UTC
(3 children)

message me if you would have any questions

2
OP
Fri Aug 14 02:04:21 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thanks, though as I mentioned above, if I think of anything within the next week, I'll just ask Dr. Bonnington when I talk to him next week. I'll read your blog, though I should probably get some sleep soon.

1
OP
Sun Aug 16 02:20:31 2020 UTC
(1 child)

I finished reading through your blog. I did skim over the pictures a lot because I'm squeamish. Overall it was very helpful, and I bookmarked the recovery place you were at. Tyvm!

2
Sun Aug 16 02:42:06 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thanks! Don’t be too squeamish, thats going to you soon!

2
u/becoming-sky
Fri Aug 14 16:02:11 2020 UTC
(4 children)

My other question is does Dr. Wittenberg use more material in a PPTV than a PIV since there is more material to use? I was wondering if any of this would create larger external parts. I haven’t looked at diagrams comparing the two so idk 🤷‍♀️

2
OP
Fri Aug 14 16:04:49 2020 UTC
(3 children)

I can ask! I wouldn't necessarily say, at least for myself, that larger is better in this case.

Edit: She did say that the externals are the same for both surgeries. So probably no size difference.

2
Fri Aug 14 20:29:46 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Ya I’m not sure if larger would be better either. I read that externals would be the same, but I didn’t know what happens to the shaft that is used to create the canal in PIV for PPTV. I figured this skin could be used. I hear clitoral hood is a possibility with other surgeries for those that were circumcised, but I might be mistaken

2
OP
Fri Aug 14 20:59:12 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Her hair removal diagram for PPT does not include the scrotum, but does include the shaft, as well as the part between the scrotum and the anus. PI diagram includes all three. So if anything, the external scrotal tissue does not appear to be used for PPT. I'll ask just to be sure.

2
Sat Aug 15 16:26:21 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thank you! I’m still waiting for my consult referral

2
u/ymmvmia
Fri Aug 14 18:18:42 2020 UTC
(3 children)

Yeah, maybe I should have posted something about my consult as well idk, wasn't really planning on it, definitely planning to share my surgery info, recovery and experience and all. I'm doing PPT. My consult was pretty much identical, though was kind of peeved I only saw Dr. Wittenberg for a grand total of 1 minute where she peeked into the room between apparently other appointments to meet me and ask if I had other questions. I came from out of state w the impression she would play a larger part of the consult but it was almost all with the PA. Especially being that my BA consults and FFS consults were with the actual surgeons mostly. Really wish I did video especially with covid and everything. I definitely should have asked about her being in the consult beforehand and am still set on her being my surgeon, was incredibly nice when I met her and the PA was AMAZING.

1
OP
Fri Aug 14 18:21:50 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Huh. My consult was video, but 100% her. I have another next week with the other surgeon. We even went a bit over time to answer questions. Dr. W was really nice, and her staff has been very responsive. I'm probably lying to myself if I say I'm not going to schedule surgery after next week's consult. Looking at hopefully next June, though, due to electrolysis.

2
Fri Aug 14 18:29:44 2020 UTC
(1 child)

OMG, seriously? Now I'm a little more peeved. I think something might have gone wrong with my appointment bc I arrived in San Fran, had a fun day vacation w my brother as much as we could w covid, then the morning of I get a call while we're walking there for them to collect payment?!?! I give it to them, tell them we're almost there. We get there and apparently they thought we were video for some reason. Even though I was pretty explicit in my email. But that shouldn't have effected Wittenbergs availability, so idk. I think maybe it could have been an important post op or appointment with someone else who needed her more urgently, I have no clue. But I would recommend for everyone not to fly in for the consult, especially in this covid situation. Or at least double and triple check that you'll be speaking with Dr. W herself. Was kind of a huge waste of money as a min wage worker living with her parents.

1
OP
Fri Aug 14 18:58:03 2020 UTC
(0 children)

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm on the other side of the country, so in-person wasn't happening. Her staff did call me immediately before the consult for payment, just like in your case.

u/[deleted]
Tue Aug 18 13:22:23 2020 UTC
(2 children)

[deleted]

1
OP
Tue Aug 18 13:24:58 2020 UTC
(1 child)

PPT is Peritoneal Pull-through, and PI is Penile Inversion. These are the two types of GCS that Dr. Wittenberg does. Some other surgeons do a hybrid peritoneal method, or a colon graft. The wiki for the this subreddit has more information on the various types of transfeminine bottom surgeries.

u/[deleted]
Sun Aug 30 20:06:59 2020 UTC
(3 children)

[deleted]

2
OP
Mon Aug 31 05:27:04 2020 UTC
(2 children)

I don't think so. Dr. W has been very careful not to oversell the potential benefits of PPT. I'm willing to go for it in terms of the potential benefits, and also the fact that it's all robotics, so the chances of a major complication from surgery should be lower as a result.

Mon Aug 31 06:53:32 2020 UTC
(1 child)

[deleted]

1
OP
Mon Aug 31 10:54:00 2020 UTC
(0 children)

AFAIK most PI surgeons don't use robotics, because it's too expensive. Robotics allow the surgeon to be much more precise, reducing the risk of inadvertent/unintended surgical moves.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/robotic-surgery/about/pac-20394974

2
u/Mali_justme
Wed Sep 2 19:27:07 2020 UTC
(3 children)

Sorry if this a repeat question.

I saw you mentioned LHR/ electro. Did you need to get any hair removal in that area, and if so did they give you a pattern for the removal? Thanks for this insane resource in what is so hard to learn about

2
OP
Wed Sep 2 19:31:40 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Yes, I have electrolysis ongoing. Dr. Wittenberg does provide a diagram (click on "Hair Removal" towards the bottom) , and honestly it's not that bad. Note that this is the PPT diagram, and the PI diagram for Dr. Wittenberg is different and requires more removal.

You're welcome! I didn't see a lot of consult write-ups, so I'm glad that mine is useful!

2
OP
Wed Sep 2 19:33:35 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Dr. Wittenberg also has a YouTube channel.

2
Wed Sep 2 23:05:17 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thank you x

2
u/danielle-tv
Fri Sep 11 04:59:39 2020 UTC
*
(0 children)

Super detailed post. Thank you.

1
u/Forgetwhatitoldyou
OP
Tue Aug 18 19:28:58 2020 UTC
(0 children)

I went ahead and updated the post with 8 questions I had with Dr. W's PA. She emphasized that I can continue to ask her questions if I have any others.

/u/2d4d_data /u/becoming-sky /u/proteannomore /u/notyourdonut /u/Wittenbergthrowaway /u/ymmvmia /u/-akalia-