Doctor Spiegel Operates A Clandestine Teaching Practice

54
u/[deleted]
Tue Sep 22 21:50:06 2020 UTC
*
(39 comments)

Hey y'all I just wanted to take the time to share my story with you. I've shared this on several FB groups and have been encouraged to share it here. So here it goes! It's a long read, although I hope it helps girls as they seek surgeons for FFS.

Introduction

First off and most importantly to know is that Dr. Spiegel operates a clandestine teaching practice. A fact not widely known as his entire practice hides this vital information from all patients unless they happen to inquire. This said, I was never told and never thought to ask so by default, became one of those patients. The result, I was operated on by a student without my permission.

So what does “teaching practice” mean? Well in short it means that a practice is a training ground for up-and-coming students. And if you contract with one of these practices, there’s a more-likely-than-not chance that you'll be operated on by a student not Spiegel. And since he doesn't actually ask for patients permission, you'll never know.

To patients who have used Spiegel, I encourage you to request your Operation Report (OR) report. I was at Boston Medical and it was easy. In most cases it's a free service. When you get the file, look to see if there was another MD listed with Spiegel. If so, this was not a generic “assistant” as his consent forms suggest, but the fellow training under him. This said, ask yourself this; were you ever told he uses fellows or if a student could operate on you?

Hippocratic Oath

I feel a good starting point is to remind folks that the entire modern day medical system has been built by doctors and hospitals to protect doctors and hospitals. Medicine and patient care is second to that foundation. And that’s the underlying narrative I want to share my experience around. Specifically, The Hippocratic Oath.

A hippocratic oath may seem to be just an empty narrative used as a plot point in a Lifetime movie, however it's so much more. Among other things at its core is to, "first do no harm.” Which in short means a commitment to do everything in your power to heal or otherwise make life better for your patient. And no doubt if you ask any doctor about their commitment to their patients, they’ll go on-and-on about the gravity of this oath.

Well what of the doctors who don't? What of the doctors who lose sight of the patient in front of them because they're looking to the next patient and the next cash or insurance payout? How do we as patients discern what a doctor's motive really is?

Safe to say an ER surgeons entire life revolves around one thing; saving lives. But what of the Pediatrician, Dentist and of course Plastic Surgeon? In almost all cases these are not "life or death" situations, so where does a non-triage doctor see themselves within the, "first do no harm” narrative?

Well I had to learn the hard way. For that oath has come to mean a great deal to me since having my FFS with Dr. Spiegel and The Spiegel Center back in March of 2018. As I can testify that, that oath means exactly nothing to Dr. Jeffrey Spiegel.

One would think that if you have your patients best interest in mind you would do everything in your power to provide the highest level of care that today's medicine, technology and technique can provide. You’d remain on top of all things within your practicing field of medicine. Alas with Spiegel this isn’t the case.

Why is anyones guess, be it extended tenure or a runaway ego. All I can tell girls is that a consult with him is akin to listening to a car salesman ensure you that you’re getting, “the best car on the lot.” Only to drive away and realize that the Ferrari you paid for is is actually just a Toyota Camry... or worse.

At first blush one could argue that opening and maintaining a teaching practice is an extension of the hippocratic oath. To which would be completely true if you were being honest in your literature and consultations. Something which The Spiegel Center does their best to conceal from their patients.

Students absolutely need to learn and we need teachers to teach them, however what happens when that teacher simply doesn’t tell patients who will be performing the surgery? Would this be a situation where a doctor has drifted away from his oath?

What would-be patients need to understand is that the Spiegel Center’s Transgender FFS Program is not high end cutting edge medicine, it’s a vocational school.

Dr. Spiegel teaches students a basic in-and-out barebones method. This is why he refuses to invest in technology that could help him build comprehensive individualized surgical plans. His practice simply has no need for them.

As a single example would be sutures. Modern day tech has robotic closing technology which creates hundreds of micro stitches along large entry points. And as one can imagine, "the close" is a major part of the (Type III) forehead conturing procedure.

That incision more than any other, needs to be a clean close with an eye to the aesthetic result. And here is a teacher who could care less about that technology and instead continues with massive traditional 'Frankenstein' hand suturing.

Collectively Spiegel's practice is a confluence of less than ideal realities. From his half-fast laissez faire consultations and clandestine fellowship program to a refusal to employ any technology whatsoever and refusal to take ownership or absorb revision costs, Spiegel has in my opinion, disregarded his hippocratic oath.

My Story

During my initial consult Spiegel poked at my face for all of ten minutes and smiled as his team put together a 57K cash quote for 8 procedures. He never took a single measurement or employed any tech whatsoever.

Lacking any of todays insight I would come back months later with insurance and commit to surgery with him. Due to that insurance dynamic, I couldn't get 8 procedures done, instead I could only get 4. Learning post-op that my insurance was charged 56K for half of the work, (36K going directly to Spiegel himself) and I scheduled my surgery date. Making perfectly clear that,

I WAS NEVER TOLD HE OPERATED A TEACHING PRACTICE AND NEVER ASKED IF A STUDENT COULD OPERATE ON ME.

So on March 15, 2018 I went under the knife. I had Type III forehead with scalp advancement and brow lift. An open Rhinoplasty. Chin Implant and Tracheal shave. I was under for less than 4 hours. Type III's alone take most surgeons 4-6 hours.

As the first days post-op wore on I knew something wasn't right. I had a massive (Xtra-Large) potato size implant in my once narrow jawline which scared me to death. It has masculinized my lower face.

I had what appeared to be a lifted forehead, only to watch the incision open up and turn to massive scarring, skin wrinkling, lumpiness and my brows flatline. Hair would fall out and never return and my hairline was only advanced on one side. Lastly I now had this dent/trench between my eyebrows. Visible when I smile.

Meanwhile my nose was, (and remains) a mess. I struggle to breath due to collapsed nasal passages, came away with a deviated septum, it runs off center and the bridge looks like it was ignored completely. In short it looks like I've been in a fight. Lastly my tracheal shave seemed meh at best with a lumpy pimple like scar emerged.

I was a mess and reached out to Spiegel's office. They were all manner of supportive. Verbally anyway. So was Spiegel. The marching orders were and remained for months, "ya have to let it heal" and "don't worry we will do whatever it takes to make you happy."

Well it healed alright. And so emerged a complete botch job top to bottom. And that promise to make me happy? Well that was nothing more than a can they were kicking down the road for 6 months. And when the time finally came, it came with a 7K price-tag. I balked. They took absolutely no ownership and ignored me. So I walked away. My head spinning I fell apart.

In the years since I’ve done some extensive research and have a new understanding and appreciation of just how fellowship programs are administered. As such have come to the conclusion that Dr Spiegel never even touched me. It was his then fellow, Dr. Laura Garcia Rodriguez. And if Spiegel did operate, he was obviously rushing with another patient in mind. Remember I was under for less than 4 hours for a series of surgeries that normally take twice as much.

All told I have suffered beyond words. My face post FFS is a disgusting dysphoric mess. I mean take a look below. This is what $56,000 worth of Dr. Spiegel’s time looks like.

Mind you I am petite, look, sound and act very feminine. And without my hair and makeup to hind behind, I can dress as a man and never be mis-gendered. And even then, I'm constantly clocked and horribly scarred, cannot breath, and now have a more masculine lower face because of this massive implant.

In so many ways I represent the perfect storm of how transgender medicine goes wrong. I'm the victim of an arrogant, profit seeking, dishonest and yes... negligent doctor. And I will testify under oath to that end.

Closing & Suggestions

So what happens when an established plastic surgeon has an ego that far exceeds his talents? One who employs antiquated and honestly outdated processes, while also doubling as a teacher to aspiring students? Is he doing no-harm? Or is he actually causing it?

Spiegel end-rounds informed consent because he knows that nobody is ever going to agree to having a student operate on them when they came to the self proclaimed, ”best in the world" for their surgery. So by that omission alone, what’s the hippocratic oath worth when your doctor doesn't care about you the patient, but rather how much he can charge for a bare minimum amount of time and investment?

I suggest that:

We deserve to know who’s operating on us. Our surgeons should be compelled to disclose that they and they alone are performing the work that we’re paying for. Or obtain a patients informed consent if they seek to utilize a student in the surgery. And that this informed consent is asked for and obtained verbally and in writing before surgery and again verbally and in writing at the day-of surgery.

We deserve to have a surgeon who doesn’t just offer modern technology, but demands it be used in their practice. From basic things like X-Rays and CT-Scans to computer software that the doctor can use to help us create a custom surgical plan. If they don’t, find a surgeon who does.

Obtain an in-writing guarantee that should any revisions be needed, that all associated costs will be absorbed by the doctor and practice without exception.

Lastly, (where I was never asked) I’ve heard the newest thing is that some doctors/practices are asking patients to sign a non-disclosure agreements. I cannot stress enough how sketch and unethical these demands are.

I’ll go on record and suggest that these are born from loud patients like myself who have publicly called their doctors practice and ethics into question. Refuse to sign them, and if they balk, report them to the BBB and the medical review boards of your state.

Thanks again for reading and remember to research and educate yourself before seeking a surgeon. So that when you do, you can choose one that has your best interest in mind. Remembering that if you’re paying for the Ferrari, be sure you’re going to drive away in one.

Pics on my profile page:

https://www.reddit.com/user/notliveworthy/comments/ixx8if/doctor_spiegel_ffs_results/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Peace

all 39 comments



10
u/LaurenRossy1
Tue Sep 22 23:31:14 2020 UTC
(1 child)

People must read this

8
Wed Sep 23 00:42:14 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Please feel free to tell people and share. 😉

8
u/[deleted]
Wed Sep 23 00:14:40 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thanks for writing this. The text was so clear and objective and useful. I'm sure it will help other people. Some people come here and complain about surgeons, and while it's understandable they can sound a bit deranged and not make sense.

u/[deleted]
Tue Sep 22 22:44:21 2020 UTC
(1 child)

[removed]

4
Wed Sep 23 00:41:09 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thanks for the support and sharing. 😊

5
u/[deleted]
Thu Sep 24 06:30:08 2020 UTC
(0 children)

To patients who have used Spiegel, I encourage you to request your Operation Report (OR) report. I was at Boston Medical and it was easy. In most cases it's a free service.

Just an FYI because people should know this:

If you request this information THEY HAVE TO GIVE IT TO YOU!!!! It's the law! HIPAA entitles you to a copy of ALL of your medical records.

u/[deleted]
Thu Sep 24 17:37:55 2020 UTC
(1 child)

[deleted]

3
Thu Sep 24 17:52:07 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thanks for sharing that. And it doesn't surprise me in the least. Spiegel has one of the most robust marking teams on the internet. From paid and compensated folks, to super-fans devoted to lifting him in the face of push-back. They're a well oiled machine.

This all said, in cases like your friends and mine, the results don't lie. He can claim patients are crippled by dysphoria, (mental illness) and wholly unreasonable all he wants, but what he can't do is directly confront these accusations in their merit. Instead he, (and no doubt others) hide behind the cushy insulation of medical malpractice law and insurance company contracts and guarantees.

In the end we as patients have little to no recourse to get answers, get fixed or even fight back. It's why I've made it my mission to tell my story over and over so potential patients can take my experience into account before contracting with any surgeon, especially Spiegel.

We're the patients, and it's our money and our livelihoods on the line. We mustn't let hucksters take advantage of us anymore.

Tell the tale far and wide girl! 💗

3
u/HiddenStill
Thu Sep 24 02:10:55 2020 UTC
(0 children)
7
u/KYLIEKAYTANNER
Tue Sep 22 22:15:19 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Its so important to spread this post around so no more trans women go to him . he has gotten lazy and greed is all that drives him now

5
Tue Sep 22 22:21:57 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thank you, I'm doing my best to let girls know what they're getting into when considering him and his practice.

2
Mon Oct 12 11:22:36 2020 UTC
(0 children)

It’s sucks that there are so few surgeons, I was considering seeing Spiegel because I live in North Carolina and he’s the only prominent surgeon on my side of the country, but this post has definitely scared me off using him. Unfortunately it looks like all the other popular surgeons are halfway across the word from me

u/[deleted]
Tue Sep 22 23:28:29 2020 UTC
(1 child)

[deleted]

9
Wed Sep 23 00:02:12 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Suporn has made it very clear who is doing the surgery and offered discounts for Bank/Prae. That’s the ethical way to do this.

2
u/Tonitingle
Tue Sep 22 22:37:12 2020 UTC
(1 child)

That's appalling so sorry to hear of your experience

2
Wed Sep 23 00:40:14 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thanks for the note. 💗

2
u/luvs_shibas
Wed Sep 23 00:55:10 2020 UTC
(1 child)

I went to him two weeks ago, I met the resident that would be assisting him and they told me he would just be holding tools. It seemed to just be him and dr spiegel at the practice the day of the surgery, and my results seem fine so far. I've seen your story elsewhere and I'm sorry you had a bad experience with him, but for me I'm happy so far with the results I got just recently with him

4
Wed Sep 23 01:13:26 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Thanks for the note. I would note however that that is not how things work with residents, (fellows) due to their limited program time. They don't just "holds tools."

These up and coming doctors are there for hands on experience. Literally several hundred hours over the course of their year program. This means that they will perform upwards of a hundred assisted and unassisted rhinoplasties in that year. Never mind Type III forehead work or any other FFS procedure they may be training for. As such, if they're in the OR, they will be inside your body 100 percent guaranteed.

And this is the point. Were you offered a discount? If they and not Spiegel are to perform any part of the surgery, that means you're not getting the so-called best from the best in the world. You're getting a fellow who's trying to pass the course.

As a teaching practice, Spiegel's entire job is to hand-hold fellows. He teaches them "the basics" or in other words, how to get in and out fast and with minimal complications.

Now sure, if any given fellow is really exceptional, (say like a Keojampa) yeah sure they will most likely do a decent job even as a student. Alas, not all students are at the top of their class. Many don't complete the program and/or don't perform well enough to make these procedures their primary specialty.

All in all, the concept and implementation of students practicing on live patients is rife with complications on a good day. Never mind for unsuspecting patients like myself.

I'm glad you're content and hope that remains the case moving forward. I'm curious, did he have you sign anything specifically consenting to a fellow being present or doing work on you?

Many thanks. 😊

2
u/52jag
Thu Sep 24 07:09:13 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Wow. Sorry that this happened to you.

3
u/_Mercy_Me
Wed Sep 23 00:25:11 2020 UTC
(4 children)

I'd like to offer a few counterpoints.

In my initial consult at BMC in February I was asked if I would be OK with having several plastic surgery fellows in the room, which I consented to because I'm happy BMC is committed to work as a training hospital to show other providers how they run an integrated transgender health program. During that appointment Dr Spiegel was focused almost entirely on me.

My sister in law is a surgery tech who's worked in multiple hospitals with a number of surgeons that specialize in in cranial surgery, and it isn't that uncommon to have additional attending surgeons or teaching fellows present and involved in skull and facial surgeries.

Dr Spiegel teaches and presents at conferences, and directly to potential patients via things like First Event and webinars their the Trans Club of New England.

During my pre-surgery visit yesterday with Dr Spiegel there were multiple people he brought in with him, including the surgery fellow that he's currently working with. The specific procedures we were doing were verified multiple times, and he spoke with me and answered questions about each one for several minutes, and he did give some specifics about what work he himself would be doing.

This morning when I went in for surgery I was introduced to each one of the nurses that would be in the room during prep, met and spoke with the anesthesiologust, and again met with Dr Spiegel and his fellow. All the pricedures were reviewed again and I had another opportunity for questions.

I'm not making any comment about the OPs surgery or outcomes, or lack of satisfaction. I'm really sorry to hear she's had a bad experience.

However, none if the "clandestine" bit is at all close to my experience.

2
Wed Sep 23 00:55:08 2020 UTC
(2 children)

This is an extremely concise point by point contention, thank you. It could find someone curious to ask, why would you as another random patient feel the need to respond in such a way and with such finite detail? A simple, "I had a good experience" would have sufficed.

In any event I do appreciate the thoughts and the moment by moment accounting of your experience. Although as noted above, this absolutely was not the case with me.

But who knows, maybe you have me to thank for Spiegel's new transparency. I consulted in 2017 and had surgery in 2018. I'd be curious to know when you had.... oh wait, you consulted in Feb of 2020. Well I guess that does answer that.

Thanks again for that incredibly thoughtful and descriptive rebuke, it's appreciated.

4
Wed Sep 23 01:14:27 2020 UTC
(1 child)

I didn't intend for anything to come off as a rebuke or confrontational, and I'm sincerely sorry if I did.

My reasoning for going into that level of detail is that you raised valid concerns in specific detail, and if other people are working with him and getting variable experiences currently that's important information for any prospective patient to know, as inconsistent practice is not a good sign. I think that we both feel it's important to share information with other people in our community.

Again, I'm sorry if I gave offense.

2
Wed Sep 23 01:20:26 2020 UTC
(0 children)

I appreciate the clarification, as you can imagine my life has been turned upside down by the experience.

1
Wed Sep 23 00:26:16 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Also, that was my effort post for the day, as i need my painkillers and a lot of sleep.

3
u/dmolin96
Wed Sep 23 01:16:13 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Aren't these students also doctors? Who have training in the field and did residencies in ENT/craniofacial surgery etc before coming to him for specialty training?

I am really sorry about what happened to you and if he misrepresented his practice to you, that is wrong (and possibly illegal, depending on what he said). But if he is supervising everything and directing the operating theater IDK whether the fact that his students do some of the work is unethical or violates the hippocratic oath (though again he should be forward about that and probably charge less when he does).

3
Wed Sep 23 01:32:36 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Hey there. Yes, his fellows are indeed MDs. That said, they come into the program like an undergraduate enters a post graduate program. Which means they may be skilled in the basic language and protocol, but that is it.

They've chosen to expand their training so as to take on specialty procedures for things such as rhinoplasty. If they're there to learn rhinoplasties then they must complete hundreds of them before gettin their certificate. This is the only way to learn. And as I said, students must learn, I appreciate that.

The deception/transgression happens when the teacher fails to announce, discuss or ask for informed consent to employ a students help in their procedure. And that is what happened with me, and I'd imagine hundreds of others over the years.

The fact that he's supervising does not excuse him, (or Boston Medical in this instance) from a duty to inform patients of that potential.

And in my opinion falls directly under a failing to provide quality care under the hippocratic oath.

Thanks again for the note.

u/[deleted]
Tue Sep 22 23:31:03 2020 UTC
(4 children)

[removed]

2
Wed Sep 23 08:12:52 2020 UTC
*
(3 children)

Excuse me, but what the fuck? Trans people are not children, we can make informed decisions.

(And to nobody’s surprise your account is littered with anti-trans trolling attempts)

3
Wed Sep 23 08:43:35 2020 UTC
(2 children)

You should report these posts so they can be banned.

1
Wed Sep 23 11:22:04 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Thank you, I totally missed it. Looks like someone else made the complaint as its gone.

3
Wed Sep 23 11:25:50 2020 UTC
(0 children)

It wasn’t reported. I removed it and banned them. It helps a lot when these things are reported, but I usually review all the posts in this sub anyway.

1
u/realbostonbarbie
Wed Sep 23 02:05:15 2020 UTC
(6 children)

Fellows aren’t students. They’re surgeons who have finished their residency training. Even if a resident was helping him plastics residency is one of the hardest to get into and u have to typically do a year in a different service first. I knew this, I asked him (bc im a nurse) and he said he was who was doing the surgery but others were there to assist. My results are nearly perfect. I’m so sorry you had a bad outcome here. I would encourage you to review the consents you signed.

3
Wed Sep 23 02:14:43 2020 UTC
(5 children)

So I'm not here to argue with people over semantics. I'd suggest you do some more research on both the definition and the functionality of fellowship programs.

This said, take a look at my photos and maybe you can explain to me how I came out of a 56K FFS surgery looking like a man. Did Spiegel just have a bad day, or was it something more systemic?

I'm not sure what you're angle is here, but I've spent two years researching BMC's fellowship program and how it's administered via The Spiegel Center. Coupling that with my experience I can tell you that A, a fellow is in fact a student. And B, a student operated on me without me ever being given informed consent.

Thanks for the note.

2
Wed Sep 23 02:23:10 2020 UTC
(0 children)

And just to be clear, I love spiegel but I’m not crazy about his office at all. Tbh I hate most of them! I do hope you get your stuff situated though, honestly.

1
Wed Sep 23 02:21:56 2020 UTC
(3 children)

I’m just calling you out on things that aren’t true. I wasn’t there, idk who did your surgery. But you’re acting as though fellows are med students and they aren’t. They are trained surgeons who have completed a residency program and who vie for a competitive program with spiegel.

If you believe a student operated on you then why are u posting on the internet and not filing a lawsuit? You’re obviously welcome to share how you feel about things. My “issue” is w the fact that you’re acting as though fellows are incompetent and they aren’t.

1
Wed Sep 23 02:25:21 2020 UTC
(2 children)

Jesus you're transparent. Tell ya what, maybe then you can be an expert witness for Spiegel in a few months. Doctor Barbie is it? 🙄

1
Wed Sep 23 02:26:08 2020 UTC
(1 child)

Not yet but soon, yes Dr Barbie DNP 😊

1
Wed Sep 23 02:29:35 2020 UTC
(0 children)

Good luck with that. Oh, and tell Jeffrey I said hello. 😉

1
u/Alexandria_Noelle
Wed Apr 6 09:40:21 2022 UTC
(1 child)

I know this is an older Post, but Laura Rodriguez is local to me, and it appears she did your surgery, and you're the only one I've seen pictures of. How are you doing now? This was only a year ago and now she's on her own, maybe her results are better now? Luckily I didn't put all my eggs in one basket here, I'm looking at 2 others

1
Sun Jan 14 22:33:13 2024 UTC
(0 children)

Don’t use her it’s fucking horrible, at best you will have no change, like me and waste your money or your one chance with insurance, I am needing to pay out of pocket in a year to fix what they did to me.

3
u/EastLansing-Minibike
Sun Jan 14 22:31:20 2024 UTC
*
(0 children)

Dr. Laura Garcia-Rodriguez operates exactly the same to this day, I had a fucking ghost operate on me never saw the person or anybody but the primary surgeon. I read my post op and I find out someone who I can’t even pronounce their name has hacked up my face!!! Why can we not have legal recourse when this misrepresentation happens. I did not go to this surgeon to have a student fuck up my face!!