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I don't really have anything helpful to say. But I'm so sorry. This is unacceptable. I don't understand how these surgeons who girls all rave about end up botching their patients. Obviously not everyone can have a 100% track record, but this is so frustrating to hear.
Do you know is Spiegal did the work personally? He teaches and there’s been a number complaints from women who didn’t know that his students would be operating on them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TransSurgeriesWiki/wiki/ffs/usa#wiki_jeffrey_spiegel
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I had Spiegel do my ffs several years ago and he had a fellow in the room. It’s my understanding that he performs very few surgeries and the resident or fellow is doing most if not all of the work. This understanding is based on things I’ve heard from other women on Reddit and it’s pretty normal for lots of surgeons who train other physicians. He should have told you about it but legally he doesn’t have to. If you look at the op report and see another doctor’s name on it, it was mostly like that physician who performed most of the surgery. This is probably why Spiegel results are all over the place. I’m sorry this happened to you.
The fellow who was in surgery with him did my follow up in the hospital and my post of appt was with him.
Thank you for sharing. I have been botched by another surgeon, butcher Bart Van de Ven and I am very vocal about it. I think, these types of posts should be seen by everyone not silenced by surgeon coordinators, surgeons and fans of the surgeons. No matter who botched you, be it one of the top FFS surgeons, IT SHOULD BE SHARED if you chose to do so. Spiegel is just one of the butchers out there exploiting trans women. I heard Toby Mayer is good at fixing botched work by Spiegel but I'm not sure he will be able to help with the jaw angle.
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For the angle you can get jaw angle implant that is custom made. This is common so there is hope. For the chin, I'm not sure whether you want it smaller or bigger but the soft tissue issues you have (I'm assuming) is due to lack of boney support and improper soft tissue adjustments. You may need custom made implants that is suffice to provide support without masculinizing your chin. I have a somewhat similar issue to my chin but the worst injury is to my nerve canal which butcher Bart cut off.
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Yes, custom made facial implants are available. I will need one for my chin and the sides of my jaw that connects to the chin. My nerves are fucked for life and I can't feel anything on most of my chin and lip. If your nerves are ok then it should be no problem getting the implant. But they're quite pricey too. Honestly sue Spiegel's ass!
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They are con artists. Honestly, among all the ffs surgeons, only Mayer and Inglefield have zero botched ffs.
I haven't heard anyone mention a botched Deschamps-Braly FFS result, do you know if he has botched any trans women?
DB is far from a butcher. But there was a f-m patient of his that was very unhappy. I talked to them and they sounded really upset. I hope they are okay. 😔
Not botched, but I met someone who had FFS with Deschamps-Braly and you could tell she’d had plastic surgery the moment you saw her. Apparently she looked very masculine before and she looked really good, but there was this plastic look. I’m not sure if would show up in a photo.
They all have botches. The surgeons are human, so not perfect. (This one woman I knew bitd day had her jaw break because Dr. O, who practically invented ffs fucked up and shaved her jaw too much). I don’t think we should expect perfection all of the time, and must allow for different healing, individuals different bodies and other variations in humanity. The problem, it seems to me, is when they have botched a patient, how is their aftercare?
I think in egregious cases like this one the doc should bear the costs of the surgical room, anesthesia, and his fee. Everything. Especially when we are paying out of pocket. In the long run, he probably STILL would make some money on the procedure.
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I thought this was gonna be one of the cases where someone just isn’t happy with a good result because they had a different idea of what was best. He definitely did not do a good job. It looks very poorly done especially for a surgeon with that kind of experience. I am sorry you had to go through that. These posts are good to bring more awareness to bad doctors. It is why I am waiting the arduous 1.5 years for dechamps braly.
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It’s really weird. Ten-15 years ago, Spiegal seemingly was the FFS poster boy. I don’t understand how he could produce something like this and not see it as problematic.
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It is very obviously a botch job and I am one of the more conservative when using “botched.” I hope you can find a path to revision. ♥️
I’m guessing it’s the same way Rumer does
https://publishing.rcseng.ac.uk/doi/full/10.1308/rcsbull.2015.331
Huge hugs. I'm sorry things didn't go well and you're stuck in a rough spot. I've said it a number of times. But very very few surgeons are truly qualified to do chin and jaw work. Many claim they are capable but have done very few surgeries of this type. Likewise implants should be avoided at all costs in the face. The number of examples where they do well is small compared to the number of examples where they don't look great, while I think your cheeks look adorable, you're not wrong they have made your eye circles more apparent and your skin looks tight under them so that can't be comfortable.
Honestly I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes... I feel like any further surgery with this same person is just a risk for more problems. They didn't do a good job when you were paying them, so why would they do a good job when you're not paying them? I feel like you're in the situation where a civil lawsuit to regain some of your money might be the only logical option. But I don't know what the odds are of you actually getting any back. Plastic surgery results can be very "subjective" and it can be difficult in court to prove liability.
But at the end of the day you're alive, and someone else could correct the problems he introduced to your face. Obviously its tragic you have to consider saving up money, going through another surgery and doing this all again. But you do have your life and that's important.
omg I'm so sorry he clearly is a monster for doing this its horrifying what im looking at. ive been telling so many people not to let these surgeons touch their jaws but they do not listen hopefully they see this post
I am so sorry this happened to you. I had an appointment with him back in 2018. It was really bizarre and uncomfortable, I never looked back. Only recently I've been back on track for FFS because of how much that guy scared me. Solidarity friend.
I can’t believe his consult fee is $490. Enough for me to run.
It wasn't back in the day, but that's big fucking yikes lmao
Wow sorry this happened to u!!! I say don’t give up hope, u r still beautiful and another surgeon can fine tune the mess that was created by Spiegel. Take out the implants, reshape the jaw/chin with lipo and u will be golden+ and up to the standard u set for urself. Ur nose is cute but that’s just my opinion…
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Are you in MA? Do you have health insurance?
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Yes the bone would have to be reshaped n then some lipo underneath after which I’m considering myself. I say start saving, I think u will feel much better having ur concerns met. Remember, money don’t need to talk 😃
God I'm sorry that happened. I have always heard that he is exceptional when he does the actual surgery but often he lets his students practice on patients and they botch.
Have you spoken to an attorney about this? Again so sorry 🥺
Sometimes these these stories just kick you in the gut. You were pretty in the before pictures. I have no idea what Spiegal thought he was doing. The nose-well sometimes they heal awkwardly. But your jaw line looks like he used a weed wacker on it or something. This is a clear case of malpractice if you ask me. I hope you can find a good lawyer and reconstructive surgeon. Please do not let Spiegal near your face again.
You poor girl, you deserve so much better. If any no win no fee lawyers are available, sue his ass. You deserve a refund
Yeah, I had surgery with Dr. Jeffrey Spiegel in 2010. I have seen some good work he has done, and some bad work. My personal experience was not great. He and his staff were nice enough but he never gave me a picture of what he was going to do. I got an upper lip that had tissue added to it and didn't ask for it. I signed papers just after coming out of anesthesia, so I wasn't level headed.
For me he was a waste of time and money. I also feel there is some gatekeeping going on at his practice. Those who he thinks won't pass become experiments.
When I got my facial surgery, the surgery was done at Boston Medical Center, which is a teaching hospital.
I was naive. I will be much wiser next time I choose a surgeon.
My advice for people getting facial feminization surgery, make sure you get to see a picture of what you may look like after surgery and know if medical students are doing your surgery or not. Practice not signing paperwork while being inebriated.
Also, talk to women who have had surgery with a particular doctor.
My experience here in the Washington DC area is that many transwomen don't want to talk about their transition unless they know you well. That can be difficult if you are not the same social class as them, i.e. served in the military, have a college degree, work for the government or government contractor. Plus there can also be that attitude that says "I transitioned so I don't want to associate with pre-transitioner. Figure it out yourself."
You could try reaching out to Health Law Advocates in Boston and see what they say. They do a lot of of Pro Bono work for the trans community.
Shoot them an email they might help
Hiya, I also have an unideal jaw situation. Before I had a fairly strong jaw with some projection especially that made me dysphoric so it was one of the things I wanted addressed with FFS. Mine came out asymmetric, with a double chin, and lumpy. Also the scars from the incisions in my mouth feel really awkward all the time. I'm not a huge fan of it, and have been quite upset about it in waves since.
But it's not on the top of everyones mind when they meet me, nor is it for you. I'm not trying to reduce your feelings or perceptions around your jaw, I'm just sharing that in my case I spent a couple of years leading up to FFS and a year in recovery and I just can't be assed to keep on living in it's shadow as much as is possible. I need to live. We need to live.
Wish you all the best <3
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Again, really not trying to reduce your feelings on your aftercare, but I do think that attitude from surgeons and their teams is kind of par for the course - not that that's to forgive it in any way. We live in a capitalistic society, they have reputations to uphold to themselves and others, and most surgeons wind up being pretty much sociapaths even if they didn't start off that way. Something about the job, or those who get into it. They'll do the thing, tick the 'done' box on it and kick you out - why would they waste their time thinking about something that they did that didn't go perfectly when they can be cashing in on a new piece of meat.
I was relying on FFS to pass, I told people I wasn't but secretly inside I was... I still don't pass, even though I pass a lot more. If you control your location, interactions, things that aren't your face etc. things can be much better. It's possible to live a life when not passing, even though it creates enough stress to probably shorten our lifespans by ten+ years.
Also, I feel like to be trans is to be degraded by people in positions of authority. Not saying that it's good, but why would a surgeon be any different. We are just paychecks to them, and if they didn't start off that way once they've done the job a hundred times it becomes impossible to empathise with the person...
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I hear you, and I feel you. Absolutely we shouldn't be treated this way, and it's truly heartbreaking that we are. You have my full compassion, love and support - including in holding speigel to be accountable for their actions and their (or thier atendees) work. I think that this sort of medical negligence is also common outside of transgender care, with women, racial minorities, the disabled, even cishet white guys... Though I fully believe it's more severe in trans cases. This does not make it right.
It shouldn't be our obligation to be super savvy going into FFS, we are usually in quite dark and overwhelming spaces when we make these decisions and even in the best of times we are not medical professionals.
I'm not saying that you should move on without taking any action, or that it isn't completely natural and understandable to have a lot of emotions about it. I guess I'm just hinting a bit at that really we cannot control the world but we can attempt to change how we feel about it, to try and make things easier. It's something I need to remind myself of more as I'm not that great at it.
Hun where do u live!!!??? Please tell me! ? I know an amazing surgeon who is amazing at jaws, brow and forehead, noses, cheek implants, etc… and he loves his trans patients, he actually cares about us!!! And if u do what I tell u. U can get it corrected for free!! U r so beautiful and I’m sooo sad, upset, and livid seeing yer post!! I want u to get this fixed and for u to be happy!! This makes me sick that someone can do this to u!!! I hope that he gets negative 10 fold back on him for what he did and how he treated u!!! We need to spread the word about him!! Please write me back privately…. Jade
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You should talk to Deschamps-Braly. He's really really good with corrective work and also jaw work.
You have to go to south korea. They will fix your jaw there. I wouldnt let anyone in the united states touch you.
Hey girly. I wanted to recommend going to korea to have this fixed. They do these surgeries all day everyday day over there not exclusively on trans people. Spiegel is disgusting
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Aw im sorry :-(. Truthfully though i think it would be less expensive to correct there then it will be to do here, so id just keep the thought in your back pocket. Vline surgery, which is what youll need, will cost 6500-7500 usd. Many of the larger hospitals in korea will absorb the cost of the hotel for foreigners or offer their own accommodation included in the surgery price and docfinderkorea will provide you with free transportation to and from the airport, and to and from surgery - they will also help with your after care. And If you go during an off season some of the larger hospitals will run promos like 15-20% off deals during that time. It sounds shady, i know, but if you saw the volume of local patients who go to these clinics daily i think youd feel more reassured. And i believe if u went at the correct time you could probably do the whole time for around 6k plus flight. It might be something to consider beginning to save for.
And personally i dont believe any doctor in the united states will be capable of correcting this given the amount of bone that will need to be removed from the other side of your face to achieve symmetry.
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