So I know that I want a peritoneal pull through, that's very important to me. I have both of these surgeons in my network and I've already seen Dr. W for a consultation. I've found out that Dr. Min Jun also accepts my insurance, and I've been very impressed with his aesthetics that I've seen on here. I really liked Dr. W, she's very real and straight forward with you, and I feel very confident in her ability to provide good functionality, which is very important to me, since I have a history with pelvic floor issues. Also, she provides full peritoneal grafts, which I like the idea of better, feels more naturalistic to me. However, when it comes to aesthetics, I think Min Jun has the edge, at least from what I've seen on here, and there seems to be a lot of cases with Dr. W where the labia minora has been lost or "receded". This really concerns me since the penile tissue that's used to construct the vulva with full PPT is precious tissue that would not be good to just lose, especially since she told me that the scrotal tissue is discarded with this procedure. Anyway, those are my concerns, I'd appreciate any advice on this.
Min Jun is in the lead in my opinion.
Min jun's aesthetics are amazing for sure
My daughter is having surgery with dr. Jun next month. Before we knew about him we tried to get an appointment with dr. Wittenberg. She wasn’t on our insurance but I wanted a consult based on ppt technique. They were very unfriendly and unhelpful, even though I was willing to pay for consult. It was uncomfortable and bizarre . Went to dr. Jun and the office staff was incredibly warm and over the top helpful. Hearing about the depth issue is new to me and she will ask him about that. It would be hard to understand why the two surgeons would differ in this respect. I’m not as completely educated on this as you all seem to be, but why wouldn’t he be intending and able to do that?
I echo this sentiment. Additionally, having a full on peritoneal canal may NOT be wise. Yes, Dr. Jun’s technique includes a couple inches of penile skin at the entrance into the vagina. The rest peritoneal.
Why? There is toughness to the penile skin. Meaning in foreplay and “fingering”, there is less chance of tearing peritoneal tissue.
You wouldn’t want a full peritoneal canal unless you are guaranteeing you will be extremely delicate with it.
Furthermore, lets talk wetness. Similar to colon, a full peritoneal canal might constantly be wet. Which is a host of many problems, including comfort (think chafing). With Dr. Jun’s technique, it’s a happy middle between wet and dry side.
Many cis women use lube. Especially as they age. And as one ages with their new vagina, you will want to think in terms of tissue integrity. Dr. Jun’s technique should be considered the new gold standard of vaginoplasty for non-cisgender folx.
Yes, actually as I learn more I agree. Now I’m just worried about the discomfort after surgery, any issues with separation. She’s young so I’m counting on that for fast and good healing. He is really good so I think it’s going to go well!
Thank you for sharing this, you make excellent points. I have decided I'm gonna consult with Dr. Jun before I make any final decisions.
So I was thinking about the full canal being all peritoneal and my current surgeon that I’m on the waitlist (Dr Ng) she explained to me that there’s just not enough evidence to say yay or nay if it’s good. Citing the points you were just saying too. So there’s that.
I'm not sure what you mean by depth issue, but the primary difference I highlighted between them is that Dr W offers a full peritoneal graft, which means the entire vaginal canal will be lined with peritoneal tissue, rather than the hybrid method of combining penile tissue for most of the canal, and peritoneal towards the rear of the canal. My understanding is Dr. W does both, but Dr. Jun offers just the peritoneal flap for PPT.
It’s a really difficult choice, based on aesthetics Dr. Jun is the clear winner IMO especially on consistency of the aesthetics. With Wittenberg/Bonnington; you’d have to get lucky with your aesthetics because I’ve seen it go either way based on the results people post on here but the main upside to them is that your whole canal is lined with ppt and is the absolute closest to what you would feel as a natal vagina, which they would have over Dr. Jun.
Personally, the safer option is Dr. Jun but if you are willing to take risks and have a pretty close to natal vagina, Wittenberg/Bonnington are amazing! I love both doctors and so you really can’t go wrong either way.
I love Moziac Care team, I’ve had no trouble with them in my correspondence with them and they’ve been amazing. I can’t really say the same with the Crane Center (based on my personal experience) but I think they are doing better with improving some of their services but in general I get a really homey and caring vibe with Moziac.
Thanks, you've give me some stuff to think about. When Dr. W was explaining to me the full PPT, the elation inside of me was unbelievably powerful. Aesthetics are still very important to me though. Tough decision indeed, I have some electrolysis sessions to mull it over lol. I share a lot of your feelings about Mozaic's staff, they're so nice and anxiety reducing. It's a very peaceful atmosphere in the office.
I might consider getting a consult with Dr. Min Jun though, just to explore the alternative. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts ❤️🏳️⚧️
No problem, and if you do end up choosing one or the other, don’t let anyone gaslight your decision. I notice some girls have some extreme opinions regarding certain surgeons that get really on my nerves! Do you!
My gut instinct points me toward Dr. W for whatever my gut instinct is worth lol
Remember, do you! We will support you! ❤️
Thanks! I really appreciate that 🤗
I’m planning on Wittenberg. I was debating between her and McGinn however the PPT seems like the move. I also just learned from a new support group that someone they knew went to her and she went to the gyno and they had no idea
That is VERY encouraging. I shouldn't forget how successful she is with constructing all the inner parts. I just worry about losing a lot of tissue that I might need in a revision.
Yeah sorry, the results that are available to me of each one don't have anywhere near the degree of differences some people here are suggesting. Which makes me feel some people here are very biased, for a reason I don't know. Acting defensive, and using ridiculously hyperbolic language about Dr. W's work also reflects this. You can Stan for a surgeon without shitting on another one.
I’m going to Wittenberg in 2023 because she offers full ppt. I’ve seen juns work and his not the greatest they paint him to be, it’s laughable the responses you get. If you look close his work, you’ll see that his inner labia is tucked inside the vaginal canal which is frankly unnatural ( another surgeon does this in nyc ) with no to thin labia and some even look prolapse. In reality every surgeon have good and bad results, even the Thai surgeons who they say are “the best” I’ve seen bad result here so jun just like everyone else is no god of srs. I don’t know why the unnecessary bs and negativity.
I don't get it either. I feel like I'm being advertised to.
Omg, I know I’m late but I thought I was going crazy with the amount of praise his results were getting in comparison with Dr. W. I’m planning surgery for next year as well and for the life of me I could t process the hype. I didn’t like majority of the pictures I was seeing but with Dr. W and also Dr. Bonnington who works with her I was much more impressed. On top of that I’m solely attracted to men so something as close to the real deal performance wise is important. The only thing I worry about are few mention the Libya collapsing… but I’m going to really be stern when I discuss the details with her OR Dr. B. As for fear or chafing… that’s sounds like what happens when you’re dry and constant scratching happens… I’ll just keep my insides moist 🤷🏽♀️ that’s no discomfort to as someone with thick thighs that rub together and constant keeps them moisturized…
I'm 4 weeks out from PPT with Heidi Wittenberg, so a lot still TBD in terms of recovery, long term functionality etc. Personally I went with her because I felt like full depth PPT was more similar to a natal vagina than hybrid, and I liked the idea of having slightly more natural lubrication.
In terms of my experience so far things have been pretty good, no regrets at all about my choice. She and the Mozaic staff are absolutely lovely and very responsive. Post surgery they have an app you can use to contact them day or night, and I consistently got answers to questions/concerns within 30 minutes, which was especially great in the first week or two.
I have had labia minora issues, which like you said seems to be a running issue with them. In my case it was pretty severe separation, so the tissue is still intact and can eventually be reattached, but it's pretty visually unpleasant to see a free hanging labia every time I dilate or go to the bathroom, and there's really nothing that can be done until a revision in a year. Time will also tell how much of an issue it is for sex etc. In the interim.
That aside, my recovery has been pretty smooth thus far, dilating has been easy+pain free and I have great depth (can't see any dots on the dilator), urination has never been a problem etc. I think once the troublesome labia is reattached I'm going to be pretty happy with aesthetics too. Sensation is returning steadily, I already have good sensation in most of my vulva. I haven't gone poking around looking for my clitoris yet though so can't say much about that.
Thank you so much for this response! I also love Mozaic's office, theyve always been very responsive and helpful for me. I can live with my labia looking gnarly for a year until revision, but my worry is having enough tissue to do a proper revision when the time comes.
For what it's worth when I was talking to them about the issues I was having they mentioned that if there isn't enough they'll take some from the labia majora. So there's options!
Yay 😁
I have yet to see a good aesthetic results from Wittenberg, so...
I've seen good results, so I think that's a bit harsh, but it is very subjective, so I respect your opinion.
Quick question for you, why did you decide it has to be the PPT method?
Oh and if I had these options it would be Dr. Jun, no question!!
It "feels" more natural to me. I never really liked the idea of using so much of my penile skin to be put way inside me. Freaks me out a bit.
Interesting, the lack of longterm data doesn't concern you?
It concerns me sure, just not enough to deter me
I went to Dr Jun and am very happy with my vagina. I’ve posted about it a bit in my profile. I think if having your full canal lined with peritoneal tissue is a priority, you should choose Dr. Wittenberg. That said, there’s a lot of benefits to peritoneal flap over peritoneal grafts. (honestly tho I have no idea how Dr Wittenberg does it because she doesn’t publish about it) but anyway, peritoneal flaps like Dr. Jun uses are nice because they are connected to a blood supply so there is less chance of healing complications, and they’re anchored to the inside of your body so, while it hasn’t been studied, it is believed the chance of vaginal prolapse is vanishingly low, where as in other processes it happens maybe 5% of the time. I don’t have the statistic handy, so I could be a little off. Beyond that, I suppose it’s about aesthetics, which is highly subjective, but I think Dr Jun does that better too.
This. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Thank you for sharing, if you find that resources, I'd love to take a look at it
Well this study has theirs down to about 4%. Just a warning, the language they use is pretty unpleasant.
Thanks, I'll check it out later
Oh, also I personally think the benefits of peritoneal vaginas are often overstated by their owners. I still think they’re great, and everybody should be doing them, just for different reasons. Between my experience and what Dr Jun has said, they’re not as self lubricating as some here would have you believe. The peritoneal tissue becomes more like outside tissue once put in the vagina. Also the thing about not needing to dilate eventually is very dependent on the individual, and their comfort level with the possibility of losing depth.
I’d say the main benefits are improved aesthetics because more tissue is left for the vulvoplasty, maximal depth, and i think they have lower risk of complications, but that’s unproven.
Interesting. Well I'm probably going to be getting consultation from Dr. Jun at least, so I'll hear him out. I appreciate you sharing
I'm not sure I understood Dr. W exactly, but I just remembered she said that there is tissue it's connected to towards the opening. Whether that's actually the case, or if that takes care of that problem, I'm not sure, but I thought it was important to mention.
Honestly, I just looked at all the results available between Dr. Jun and Dr. W, and I'm not seeing this glaring aesthetic difference that some responses seem to suggest.
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I don't want to assume either way, but I don't think my eyes are lying to me.
Gupta at UH in Cleveland. He did my ppt and he’s done a bunch of my friends. He’s good and his waiting list is short!
Glad you have a great experience with him. Just putting this here for the knowledge of some of the parents of trans girls that might read this. This surgeon refuses to even consult with girls would aren’t 18 yet.
She’s 19, has been on hrt since 15.
Great! I was just putting this out there for parents who might read this thread and come across the name Gupta. Mine is 16 and we are in the process of doing consults and they won’t do one for her which I find crazy because they are losing to other surgeons by not consulting earlier. My daughter is planing surgery July 2023 so we have to start consultations now if we actually want a date in that time frame.
Both are good surgeons. Consulted with both. Went with Dr. Min Jun. And I can say his results rival Dr. Wittenbergs.
I find Dr. Wittenberg or Dr. Bonnington’s results often has excessive scarring at the introitus. Its literally like…just open.
Also, Dr. Jun’s method to stitch up on the labia majora area (that standard “V shape”) doesn’t look horribly aggressive like someone used shark teeth and fishing wire to tightly keep things together. Or akin to a Christopher Nolan’s Joker smile scar.
Whatever scars from Dr. Min Jun’s stitching technique are DRASTICALLY reduced. They heal phenomenally, and is evident in ALL his work.
If you like scars, go Mozaic. You like the most advanced technique AND aesthetic? Go to Dr. Min Jun. He’s WELL WORTH THE WAIT!
And very very very very accommodating to his patients.
Care to share some examples of what you mean with the scarring? I do appreciate Dr. Min Jun's apparent talent and I respect your opinion, I'm not considering him an alternative for no reason. A full peritoneal graft is (at least at this moment) very important to me, that's one of the things that's sways me a lot.
I was really impressed with his stitch work on me. Very clean.
Agreed. ✔️ Walking into this experience, one may or may not have expectations of affected sensation and scarring.
I’m glad to report neither have been my experience. Received MORE sensation after AND minimal scarring! The technique used at Mozaic, I’m sorry, gives heavily scarred results.
This was almost expected as far as peritoneal surgical results…until Dr. Min Jun came on the scene.
Transition/transformation isn’t just a physical experience, but a mental/emotional…and even spiritual one.
We all will obtain scars along this journey. Some more intense than others’ experience. But if a surgeon can help reduce the amount of physical scars (which in effect might reduce the emotional ones tied to it) in a heavily complex surgery, then Dr. Min Jun is doing EXACTLY that.
I’m going to take another look at the Reddit results on him because I’m just not seeing what everyone else praising him sees…
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