Shoulder Reduction/Rib Removal Dr. Eppley almost 1 year post-op
So in case anyone interested missed it, here's my previous post about shoulder reduction (and rib removal) done with Dr Eppley in Indianapolis:
...and I finally lost some of the weight previous commenters complained about getting in the way of seeing the results! Quitting antidepressants and then starting amphetamines and morphine for my chronic (SRS-related :/) pain was the best choice I could have made for my mental health; I finally feel like I want to do things again and I finally feel as though I have the energy to do them!
So hopefully some of you can see what I mean in trying to remove some of the gut fat that was in the way?
(don't worry, abdominoplasty is next if I can't save all the way until VFS- same bf with the same preferences so no traditional-style BA just yet)
Anyway...
In the intervening months, the healing process has gone fairly well! I no longer have trouble bumping my shoulder at night and waking up, and I have most functionality restored to both arms (though be prepared for the cultural shift around you that may happen where others feel uncomfortable around you being "incapacitated".)
Some complications I'm still experiencing are a bit of surgical hardware trying to exit my left clavicle, and it causes pain to the touch (though nowhere near the pain-relieving power the morphine I'm prescribed is, so I'm doing better than most might). There's a chance I'll have a surgery to take it out, but it's much less of a big deal than something like a bone healing incorrectly, which you would recognize very soon into the recovery process.
I still get some aches while reaching my left arm to its maximum reach, and this is something I'm seeing an orthopedic doctor about in a few weeks (I'm a rightie and I favor form over function anyway so it's not much off of my back personally, though I can see how it could be damaging to some.)
But overall, I'm very happy with my results. I literally couldn't ask for more shoulder reduction, because there's a physics problem there (otherwise I totally would! I still feel shoulder dysphoria sometimes, and having the body of a trans woman some clothing choices will be forever locked off to me).
This is also true of my waist, but a lot less so given just how malleable it is through both surgery and losing weight; that's some abdominal wall sticking out like a gut I'll never have to worry about again!
This surgery, as with any, isn't an overnight BDD fix and that's been what I've learned most from this experience but that doesn't mean it hasn't been immensely helpful in how I feel waking up in the morning and looking in the mirror.
If you have any questions I happen to know the answers to, I'd love to provide some insight for you as much as I can :)
And my open request from last time in regards to plastic surgery suggestions and belt outfit ideas now that I'm finally not a rectangle still stands :P
Wow, this is awesome! Congratulations!
Okay, here's a question. Did the rib removal and clavicle reduction happen during the same surgery?
Yes- the final floating ribs were removed under the same session of anesthesia as the break and reattachment of the clavicles
Interesting, thanks! I'm thinking of having this same combo done, so thank you so much for the info.
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I think I'm ok! Don't call me 'crazy' until I get that one leg shortening/height reduction surgery to get rid of these giraffe legs though, I've got plenty of plastic surgeries still on my list
Posting on the top comment to let anyone looking for her know that OP (formerly u/theydystardust ) has passed away recently.
Was it because of these surgeries or her complications with srs? I’m looking for doing these surgeries but I’m really scared I’m committing a big mistake.
Anyway don’t want to make this about me, I’m so sorry for her, may she rest in peace.
It was suicide - if you'd asked her, she would probably blame a rare srs complication that gave her chronic pain (she had peritoneal pull through), but really she had already been talking about and attempting suicide for years before that, not to mention that she was an addict and prone to spiraling.
So... I don't know, she was an outlier. Don't let her bad decisions influence what you do for yourself.
There’s not many people posting about these surgeries so it’s quite risky. Personally I wouldn’t do it at this point.
They can do that? O:
they can! lots of limb lengthening surgeons will also offer to shorten your legs. it's just prohibitively expensive, usually sitting somewhere close to $100k for the california surgeons
i wish there were feet and arm and hand shortening surgeries :/
Goodness sake that’s a lot 0:
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Had no idea this was even possible! Thanks for posting.
Hey just curious about the cost if you're comfortable sharing :)
Sure, I've mentioned before and don't have an issue sharing- the bill in total was around $40,000 when I did it. I was able to negotiate it down with help from doctor family by providing some of the surgical equipment used doing the procedure and ended up saving around $8000.
Oh wow thats great they were willing to negotiate on the price. Just curious which equipment you were able to provide that would lower the price so substantially?
We provided some of the hardware to their office, itself provided by a medical rep my stepfather knew and received from at his clinic. That's obviously not an option for most people, but it does seem to indicate a willingness to negotiate in terms of pricing should you have a way to provide something to cheapen the overall cost of the operation or if a custom request would lower the procedure cost.
Did it change how some clothes fit in the shoulder area?
yes, it did! I have a lot more range of sleeved clothes I can wear comfortably in the shoulder now (not that it matters since it's summer :P)
This surgery also presents the advantage of changing your overall body shape, which completely changes what outfits are available to you- I had to do a lot of thrifting to overhaul my wardrobe following this surgery (and the unintentional weight cycling that followed)
Omgg this is literally what I want 😭😭😭 Im manifesting it rn
Do you mind sharing your waist measurement before and after the rib cage removal? As well as you shoulder width ?
I don't remember my exact pre-surgery number- while they were measuring the anesthesiologist addressed me as male and I blacked out from the benzodiazepines or barbiturates immediately, before I could be told my dimensions pre-operatively.
However! I do have my pre-op experience and a measuring tape.
My pre-surgery shoulder width was about 40 inches and my post-op width right now is about 38. To my knowledge they can safely take a couple centimeters from each side, dependent on shoulder width- wider shoulders can have more taken down.
My pre-surgery waist was about 33 inches and my post-surgery waist size is 27 inches, down an inch or two from when I was heavier in my last post. I don't know how much was swelling going down or weight loss?
Wow that’s amazing congrats sis. I wish I had a more smaller waist but I already have a 43 inch hips. I feel like if I get my ribs shorten I will look unnatural and like the body of Nicki Minaj (no shade to her) but I prefer a little more natural. I’m a 33 inch waist right now with 43 inch hips
Wow that’s amazing congrats sis. I wish I had a more smaller waist but I already have a 43 inch hips. I feel like if I get my ribs shorten I will look unnatural and like the body of Nicki Minaj (no shade to her) but I prefer a little more natural. I’m a 33 inch waist now with 43 inch hips.
Can you speak to us about your SRS experience or make a post about it please? 🥺
There are 3 reasons I haven't made a longform post about it yet the way I have with my other surgeries, aside from the obvious reasons of "I don't want my genitals pictured on the internet" and "I don't want a group of people to repost said photos on a forum dedicated to making fun of trans people's genitals":
1) I haven't yet because I would have to write thousands of words recounting and reliving an experience that went from hopeful and happy to depressing and miserable
2) I don't feel comfortable outright bashing a surgeon over something they seem to have had little to no control in
3) And most importantly I don't think it would be informative or help anyone
Plenty of people got peritoneal pull-through (PPT) with Dr. Wittenberg and it's an increasingly popular practice because of the metaplastic change the peritoneum goes through to create indistinguishable-from-natal tissue and microflora, and because of Dr. Wittenberg's aesthetic results. Yes, the results make it possible to lie about your trans status to men following this particular surgery (I think that's sometimes true for other types but obviously I don't have firsthand knowledge there), though I'm guessing most people here agree that that's a bad idea in general.
PPT is awesome if you can find a way to afford it and I wouldn't want my experience to cause someone to choose an otherwise undesired or suboptimal method of pursuing SRS based on my account.
My utterly life-changing grievance with my SRS experience is that my surgical pain never really went away; after a long and extremely difficult recovery (tissue necrosis, wound separation I later found the doctor described as "extremely severe", the whole everything-that-could-go-wrong-did-go-wrong aesthetically), the internal pain at the end of the vagina never stopped. I had spasming during dilation on the inside, a lot of bleeding, and while those symptoms have subsided with time- and the aesthetic results eventually went from "horror scene" to "looks ok"- and the dilation schedule being phased out for intercourse, the pain has never stopped.
It's worst when I sit, and it's a sharp, burning pain. I've seen something like 15 doctors now and ruled out everything but pudendal neuralgia and complex regional pain syndrome, neither of which I can do much of anything about and everything I have tried, with the exception of a few nerve-slowing and analgesic medications, has failed and wasted upwards of $20,000 at this point.
I take a pretty extensive med list to try to manage it as well as use special cushioning and I lay down for a lot of the day to keep the pain down. I can't really manage going to school and sitting down anymore, so I'm hoping upping my pain meds and seeing what I can work out with my professors next semester to possibly save my education. Obviously, this is kind of a big lifestyle change!
Dr. Wittenberg has mostly been vague in providing direction as to what to do, and since none of her other 300 or so patients seem to have encountered this problem, I just might have uniquely bad luck in terms of biology, physiology, or surgical results. She says there's nothing more her and her team can do for me, and has basically cut contact with me and my family.
I don't think this would happen to many other people at all, but I do think this story would fear-monger , so I haven't made a main post about it, especially since Dr. Wittenberg is the only surgeon I know of who will perform PPT SRS on people with enough donor tissue to otherwise do the old-style penile inversion method and I don't want that option to be revoked based on what could become a well-known bad experience.
I think writing a post that seems like it's bashing her care or method, even if I've had to deal with some major life consequences, would lead to hurt for even more people who decide against pursuing surgery on the fear they'll get that 1/300 (or lower!) chance of completely life-altering chronic pain.
All that being said, I would even do it again- I just wish the roll of the dice had come up different. Being in physical pain all the time is miserable, but in turn I'm happy living with what's effectively the real thing to anybody not looking for a cervix, I'm happy I actually have a boyfriend now who I wouldn't if I still had my old stuff, and I'm beyond happy to throw the old birth certificate away.
Wow thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to write all this down it’s as really helpful and informative.
I never heard of your doctor and wasn’t on planning on going to her but I always ask other trans women about their experience with their SRS as I have horrible bottom dysphoria and believe that I’ll be much happier post op but I always hear mixed reviews about the procedure.
I’d like to ask, if you had no complications, would this procedure be everything that you wanted? In a sense that you have no regrets going ahead with it and it met your expectations with having a new set of genital?
Like if you had no chronic pain and could enjoy intercourse would having SRS meet your expectations of what it’s like having a vagina?
Also I suggest for your case to travel to thailand and see Dr Kamol or dr chetwaut or any of the Thai doctors they could be way more help than the American ones since they have done thousands and thousands of SRS surgeries, also dr kamol does the ppt technique I hope by you seeing other options outside the US you find the solution to your problem.
I hope you’re having a lovely day just like you are 💕
I've read every post for Dr. Chettawut on the WIKI of this sub. There are several people who have reported problems with chronic numbness and chronic pain and Dr. Chettawut's response has been that it is a "non-specific symptom". This is a small percentage of the reviews out there for him, I bring it up just to highlight for future readers that these cases do come up with even with Thailand Surgeons (even Dr. Banks has one such report in the WIKI on a team surgery with Dr. Prae) and they seem unable to help when it happens.
I suspect no surgeons are able to help in chronic pain cases if there is nothing obviously anatomically wrong, and the only hope is likely pain management specialists (I've read some cases where that has helped, though not for the OP sadly). However, there does seem to be variability in how the surgeon handles it. Some seem to handle it better than others.
Oh hey I had a consult with him
I can’t afford the surgeries I want from him yet tho 48k is a lot lol
It is but how many doc's do it? not that many i only heard of 3 ish forgot their names and it's may be cheaper than ffs xD
Do you have to have another surgery to remove the plates and screws they put there to hold the bones? Or what happens to them?
I am planning to get this surgery in Europe with Veith Moser and I’m really scared.
You can if you'd like to have the plates and screws removed, but it's not required. If the hardware starts to come out/be painful/etc., then an orthopedic surgeon should be able to remove it and it should be covered by insurance in that case.
Looking amazing
Can you talk more about the recovery? How brutal was it?
How long before you were able to use your arms? How bad is the pain after one year? When did it stop hurting?
Recovery was easy next to FFS and SRS, honestly; the postsurgical painkillers handled most of my pain and while it was difficult to sleep for a couple weeks afterwards, since the way you rest your upper back isn't conducive to recovering from surgery in the area, that was the symptom I found the worst.
Nothing too difficult if you've had a trans-related surgery before, you know what to expect!
You gain full use of your arms back after 4 weeks, gradually increasing the amount you can bend your bicep over the course of a few weeks. That process isn't too painful, though I didn't want to push it by any means.
You look so much like my friend's wife. So happy for you. I would love shoulder reduction.
So Im a dancer, do you think I could get the surgery and continue dancing (just based on your current mobility/pain when exerting force) Or like can you still exercise well (pushups etc...)?
I personally wouldn't do push-ups now if I could avoid it! I'm wary of worsening the pain that occurs in my left arm if I were to exert it much (which I avoid in daily life as well).
If your career depends on something that could be ruined by surgery going wrong- e.g. if you're an opera singer but want voice surgery- personally, I wouldn't do it in case of encountering complications.
You sign off on papers saying you understand all the risks going in, and you don't think it will happen to you until it does and then that involves some pretty major life changes- speaking from experience having SRS causing permanent pain, and damage to my ability to sit :/
So be careful, prioritize your health, and make sure resolving your discomfort and feelings of dysphoria outweigh the risks of surgery before following through with it.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you should be able to do push ups in the future, assuming the surgery went as expected, and you recover? I understand planning for the worst. I just wonder if its an expected outcome
I think I could do push-ups now with some pain, but there's still the hardware sticking out on the left side that is probably responsible for that. I would expect a recovery without issue to allow for push-ups as normal.
This is great to hear.
May you have a speedy recovery. :>
...And may my bank account grow big enough to afford this myself lol :<
How is your range of motion?
About normal! I don't like stretching my left arm to its maximum extent- I don't know if the twinge of pain is from pushing on the hardware or what- but it's restored to its full range by week 4 after the procedure
Has anyone had this in Europe?
At first I was going to say "What's the difference" but now I compare the pictures I'd like to say that you look marvelous! A lot better!
Thanks for sharing! Wish I had money for this :(
I had no idea a shoulder reduction was even a thing. So excited to learn about this
archaeologists in the future are going to be really confused why this skeleton was all fucked up and rearanged
I actually said this to my sister the other day, the thought of that is really funny to me
i wonder what their justification would be if they didn't know why already
Do you know if there's anything for reducing my ribcage size/thickness from the side? I look like superman
Dman you're so beautiful and lucky.
I'm so jealous
Wow! I have been considering this for a bit and these are amazing results, congratulations!
So glad you posted this, definitely saving it for future reference. You look great btw.
Amazing!! I have a question does it hurt to move your shoulders back or anything?
Not really! Bumping my shoulder at just the wrong angle (while asleep, usually) hurts somewhat but not very much compared to other postsurgical pain I've had
Lol i had to double check cause i thought you was cis. Thanks for letting us know about this surgery i had no idea and it might be something i get in the future. Also congrats.
What kind of incision do you have from the surgery?
she posted it.
I've been told this surgery is dangerous. How true would you say that is based on what your consultant/surgeon told you?
Doing it as a cosmetic surgery is experimental- the surgeon said he had done it less than 100 times at the time of doing mine- but it's not based on any completely new science, the procedure is just what doctors would do if your bones were to break naturally.
If doing an artificial, controlled break of both your shoulders seems dangerous to you, then it probably is! But personally, I hated and couldn't take my shoulder dysphoria in the same way I couldn't take my facial or bottom dysphoria, and so decided the risks of surgery were absolutely worth the benefits.
Actually doesn't sound too dangerous! As long as the doctor's there to handle the recovery and healthily restore them to functioning order.
Can I ask, can you give an estimate of how much for the rib removal alone. Just an estimate so I know how much to save. Thank you
Do you know if there is any big risks in this shoulder reduction?! I dint knew that was possible at all…
Hey there! Congratulations on your surgery. I’m so glad you seem happy with your results. I was curious about how Eppley views trans people? I’m ftm and looking to get jaw surgery and I’m terrified of going to someone who is skilled but has a bias in some way. I’m assuming your vibe from him was positive because you went through with the surgery but wanted to ask
I personally would pick a specialized facial surgeon for jaw surgery but assuming that doesn't bother you he seems nice enough, if fairly blunt!
his anesthesiologist misgendered me so that's something I might consider if you're trans the other way than me- I'd rather be overanesthetized than underanesthetized for what's probably pretty scary if you wake up during surgery.
That is a really good callout. Thank you for this.
Hey I’m late to this but do you happen to know your measurements of your shoulders before and after?
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