How Painful Should Dilation Be?

31
u/roguecogue
Wed Nov 30 06:04:29 2022 UTC
(50 comments)

Hi,

I had vaginoplasty with Dr. Bowers one week ago and before today, I'd been happy to say that the pain was way less than expected. I was very happy with my results and to get the catheter out. but the three times i've attempted/done it dilation has been AGONIZING, like it feels almost physically impossible when my muscles are this tight, i'm screaming or in tears every time. It's pain at least an order of magnitude greater than anything i felt in the first week post surgery.

At the post op meeting they made it sound like this was normal to experience at first, but other people i know who have had it say they haven't experienced anything like this. Would love to know if anyone else has experienced this, whether i'm just being a baby about pain or if there's really something going on here, and any advice on how to deal with it.

all 50 comments



38
u/HiddenStill
Wed Nov 30 08:04:36 2022 UTC
(27 children)

Some people have a lot of pain, some virtually none. Get some decent painkillers. You absolutely have to dilate.

4
OP
Wed Nov 30 18:53:20 2022 UTC
(8 children)

I know i absolutely have to dilate. But is it the end of the world if i use the warmup dilator they gave me as my main dilator for the first week or so while using the assigned one after until it gets a little less painful?

2
Wed Nov 30 19:02:53 2022 UTC
(5 children)

I think you should ask them. The most important thing is depth. If you smaller dilator gets depth it may be ok, but you’ll likely have more pain with the bigger one starting again.

What painkillers are you using?

2
OP
Wed Nov 30 19:07:14 2022 UTC
(4 children)

it gets to depth yeah. I'm using motrin and ibuprofen. when it was really bad last night i also tried a percocet (for the first time since i got the bandage off at the hospital) but honestly the effect on my pain was not worth the drowsiness and nausea

3
Wed Nov 30 19:24:20 2022 UTC
(3 children)

There should be lots of other painkillers you could try. Tramadol, codeine, etc. I’d hesitate to drop down a size in dilators in case it makes thing difficult later. The problem with opiates is addiction, but it’s not going to happen in a few days.

3
OP
Wed Nov 30 20:02:14 2022 UTC
(1 child)

Got the OK from the dilation specialist to start with the blue one as the main one and the green as overtime. that's a huge relief

1
Thu Dec 1 07:52:49 2022 UTC
(0 children)

Fwiw my surgeon told me to always start with the smallest to ensure maximum depth is maintained, regardless of what maximum size I am able to use.

1
Fri Dec 2 00:09:20 2022 UTC
(0 children)

Yea. Using any dialator is better than none at all.

Out of curiosity are you going strait to the bigger one?

Early on I found it easier to start at the smallest for 5 to 10 then work my way up the sizes

1
Sat Dec 17 06:26:39 2022 UTC
(0 children)

Its been 17 days since you posted this, how are you doing now?

Wed Nov 30 12:32:27 2022 UTC
(17 children)

[deleted]

19
Wed Nov 30 12:38:35 2022 UTC
(10 children)

You'd lose all your depth and need to repeat the surgery to get back, only more complicated next time, and probably just have the same pain anyway. Why would you go though all that instead of just getting some painkillers?

Wed Nov 30 13:14:22 2022 UTC
(9 children)

[deleted]

5
Wed Nov 30 14:09:33 2022 UTC
(1 child)

Do you know what’s causing the pain? What have you done to find out?

Do you need to dilate every week at 5 years? Some people don’t have to, and can go much longer gaps.

11
u/5jane
Wed Nov 30 15:18:19 2022 UTC
(4 children)

Girl…I get you so much. It feels like a trap. Like being a mouse in a trap.

This damn surgery. I don’t know what was going through my head when I decided to do it. Actually I do know. A whole lot of wishful thinking, and a whole lot of hope that it’s not gonna be that bad. Oh well.

Wed Nov 30 15:29:17 2022 UTC
(3 children)

[deleted]

8
Wed Nov 30 23:02:04 2022 UTC
(2 children)

I completely agree with you, it's nowhere near as good as i was expecting and nothing like a cis vagina. One year post op and I'm wondering why i bothered. It's nice not having to tuck or take blockers but it has its own issues that were unexpected and unwelcome.

2
Wed Nov 30 23:40:12 2022 UTC
(1 child)

any chance you could elaborate on those unexpected and unwelcome issues? i wanna have a realistic perspective goin into this

3
Wed Nov 30 23:47:55 2022 UTC
(0 children)

Neuropathic pain, lack of clitoral sensation, doesn't smell great, can't climax, PTSD, anxiety, depression. It's a bit better now at 1 year post op but I'm very anxious about my revision with a different surgeon next week to try and reduce the scars etc. Then probably going on a small dose of T because mine is non existent and way below cis female levels.

If you are really interested start at the bottom of my profile / posts. Mostly documents all the issues i have had to deal with.

3
Thu Dec 1 23:44:24 2022 UTC
(0 children)

Have you spoken to your doctor? 5 years is an extreme length of time to be suffering especially in silence. I don’t want to assume your financial or what complications you might be having but maybe a revision is needed? You can also try seeing a physio therapist for pelvic floor excercise.

1
Wed Nov 30 14:07:33 2022 UTC
(0 children)

Have you tried downsizing dilators? Depth is important to keep from a health perspective because it can (not always, but can) lead to unhealthy or necrotic tissue as I understand it. But width has none of that issue.

6
Wed Nov 30 15:58:47 2022 UTC
(4 children)

it's a bit ridiculous to think that 1 week of pain after the most traumatic surgery possible = "crying in pain every day for the rest of your life".

If you think that 1 week of pain is a good reason not to have GCS, don't get GCS.

Wed Nov 30 16:44:19 2022 UTC
(1 child)

[deleted]

0
Thu Dec 1 01:47:16 2022 UTC
(0 children)

is that really worth having to cry in pain every day for the rest of your life?

2
Wed Nov 30 17:20:30 2022 UTC
(0 children)

I was in severe pain my first week dilating and reopening my wounds and bleeding everywhere. Now im fine. Ur literally rearranging the tissue with the most nerves in the body, its a fine line from pain to pleasure and the start is going to be a lot of pain.

2
OP
Wed Nov 30 18:15:32 2022 UTC
(0 children)

yeah on an intellectual level i know i will adapt to this soon and it'll get easier. Just scary rn yknow

13
u/jpc123654
Wed Nov 30 12:36:20 2022 UTC
(3 children)

I've heard anecdotally that pelvic floor exercises can help. These generally come from a physical therapist.

8
Wed Nov 30 13:10:44 2022 UTC
(0 children)

They are SO GOOD. totally taught me to look at dilation completely differently

6
Wed Nov 30 14:12:53 2022 UTC
(1 child)

+1 you need to understand and learn to control your pelvic floor op. I wouldn't be surprised if the stress and pain is making you clench up, making it all much worse... Early dilating wasn't pleasant but it wasn't that painful for me and shouldn't be.

2
Wed Nov 30 19:30:06 2022 UTC
(0 children)

exactly. Thank you.

6
u/mononoke_princessa
Wed Nov 30 13:09:51 2022 UTC
(26 children)

It’s so incredible how different this is for everyone. I’ve never had any pain while dilating in the 6 months since surgery.

According to my liaison, dilation pain “should never go above a 2 or 3”.

What is your positioning like? If youre tensing in any way during dilation - this would cause pain. Or, you’re really early in healing - you could have an internal tear?

I found that the “butterfly” position that they tell you to get into to dilate doesn’t work for me. Rather, I butterfly my left leg, and bend my right leg so my knee is bent and my foot is flat on the bed.

stretches:

Using my left hand, I insert either the purple or blue soulsource to 1 dot, then press the entire dilator against the inside of my canal to the left for 60 seconds, then to the right for 60 seconds. This releases and stretches the walls of your canal. Then I push the dilator down towards the bottom of my canal for 60 seconds. I do this like 2 or 3 times before I dilate.

I have a lubricant injector that makes it so I can disperse lubricant directly into my canal. Then I dilate. I’m mostly laying flat aside from having one or two pillows under my bed. The flatter you are the better. You shouldn’t be like practicing kegels or anything at this point. I was actually lectured about this by my PT LOL.

Wed Nov 30 13:51:40 2022 UTC
(25 children)

[deleted]

4
Wed Nov 30 14:10:38 2022 UTC
(16 children)

Some patients, not most. Not unless you’re living somewhere where there’s really poor surgeons.

10
u/5jane
Wed Nov 30 15:46:44 2022 UTC
(2 children)

This is totally untrue. I went to Suporn, I am way past the healing stage (20+ months post op), and dilation hurts like fuck. I need to take opioids to dilate, otherwise I wouldn’t manage.

I am so tired of the “poor surgeon” trope. This is exactly how I fooled myself into believing it’s not going to happen to me.

Every time I read a horror story, I was like “oh I guess they must have had a poor surgeon. I’m going to the best surgeon so that’s not going to happen to me”.

No. You can have the best surgeon ever and still have problems that are absolutely awful. That’s the reality of this surgery and it needs to be acknowledged.

There is so much cheerleading in the trans community when it comes to this surgery, and it’s totally divorced from reality. Then, when you get hit with the consequences, you actually feel ashamed to speak out, because everyone is like “yay, SRS, best thing ever!”, and you feel like you’re rocking the boat.

This needs to stop. It really needs to stop. This subreddit is influential, too influential. We need a dose of realism in here. To offset the million posts from girls who are a couple weeks post op and feeling amazing. Yeah, I get it. I’ve been there. It doesn’t last.

6
Wed Nov 30 15:55:33 2022 UTC
(0 children)

There are Suporn patients with serious long term pain, I've met at least one. Its nowhere near most.

1
Wed Nov 30 20:41:24 2022 UTC
(0 children)

I 100% agree with you on this!

Wed Nov 30 14:25:30 2022 UTC
(12 children)

[deleted]

3
Wed Nov 30 15:32:08 2022 UTC
(11 children)

I’ve met heaps of women who’ve had surgery and only a few have had serious pain issues. Plus when you look at posts here it’s not most.

Did you have painkillers that worked after your surgery?

Do you have bleeding when you dilate?

Do you have internal hair?

Wed Nov 30 15:40:01 2022 UTC
(10 children)

[deleted]

3
Wed Nov 30 16:04:05 2022 UTC
(9 children)

Working painkillers make the pain tolerable - not what you're describing. Some doctors won't prescribe properly, and some women the the usual painkillers don't work so you need keep trying different ones until you find something that does. Lots of surgeons/doctors don't take this seriously.

I asked because you said about PTSD. If you have uncontrolled pain early it could conceivably cause this, which them makes dilation difficult and painful and you develop a cycle its hard to break out of.

You mentioned chronic infections. Internal hair can cause reoccurring infections, and I'm told (by a doctor) that if you keep treating it with antibiotics it can eventually lead to the antibiotic resistance, and then you've got a big problem. You should try to get rid of it, which is difficult. See here

https://old.reddit.com/r/TransWiki/wiki/hair-removal#wiki_post-op_hair_removal

Do you know if you have granulation? Have you had an internal exam?

Who was your surgeon?

Wed Nov 30 16:10:17 2022 UTC
*
(8 children)

[deleted]

0
Wed Nov 30 16:16:06 2022 UTC
(5 children)

Its conceivable your PTSD could be causing the pain at this point. Have you tried dilating with a benzodiazepine? Its not a good idea long term, but might point you in the right direction if it works.

You might be able to pull the hairs out every so often. Perhaps that will help.

Wed Nov 30 16:26:40 2022 UTC
(4 children)

[deleted]

child comments hidden

1
Wed Nov 30 16:20:07 2022 UTC
(1 child)

I forgot, but when you take painkillers you should at least be able to tell the difference between taking them and not. It should be possible to to remove most of the pain as well, but doctors don't like to prescribe high doses as its dangerous. The the stuff you get in hospital is really good, but for some it doesn't work at all.

2
Wed Nov 30 20:39:58 2022 UTC
(4 children)

If you’re at a 9 in pain dilating then something’s bad wrong.

Wed Nov 30 20:44:40 2022 UTC
(3 children)

[deleted]

1
Wed Nov 30 20:50:02 2022 UTC
(2 children)

Possibly mine was probably a 1-2 my first dilation.

Wed Nov 30 20:55:10 2022 UTC
(1 child)

[deleted]

-1
Wed Nov 30 14:52:17 2022 UTC
(2 children)

It’s not bullshit.

Wed Nov 30 14:55:50 2022 UTC
(1 child)

[deleted]

3
Wed Nov 30 17:22:18 2022 UTC
*
(0 children)

Some people are numb for days or weeks after surgery down there. I was not one of them but it can happen after such trauma to the nerves.

Edit: I do believe most patients do have a lot of pain im just saying some can be numb for a long time.

5
u/Sakura_No_Seirei
Wed Nov 30 15:02:38 2022 UTC
(0 children)

People's experiences with dilation can vary a huge amount, and there's so many reasons why dilation can be easy for some people, difficult for others, suddenly painful when it wasn't, or always painful

Part of what you're experiencing could be nerves waking back up. I was very numb after surgery (thank goodness for epidurals) and I was still pretty insensitive down there for weeks after. Painkillers can help when nerves start getting stabby (I used ibuprofen and paracetamol as pretty much my only means of pain relief when I needed it), but they aren't a magic solution, sadly

It might help to be able to separate out in your mind what the pain(s) are that you're feeling and very specifically where in or around the vaginal cavity they're occurring, and what that might be linked to. That can be difficult at first (our brains are very good at going, "Ow! Pain!" and then not giving us much beyond that, but knowing if the pain is coming from clenched muscles being forced apart compared to swollen and sensitive tissue being touched compared to sensitive and swollen tissue being ground together by clenched muscle compared to something else can inform a lot of how you approach dilation

Something that might help with swollen tissue is douching with hibiscrub. It's relatively inexpensive. Dilute it down to less than the recommended amount. I've found that really useful, especially at the beginning. Hibiscrub is a skin wash specifically designed to kill bacteria and viruses and leave a thin film behind to continue to do that whilst also being very gentle on every type of skin. If there's bacterial growth (which I had) happening that causes inflammation then the hibiscrub will take care of that growth for you and help prevent more. But it's important to come off hibiscrub at some point (I stopped after 8 weeks). It isn't healthy for any vaj to constantly have its biome nuked

One of the things I did was ditch the lube recommended to me. I went for a water-based lube that contains aloe vera (a thick lube, but thinner than the medical lube I was given). That helped me as I found that the slightly thinner lube meant I was more able to slip the dilator pass clenched muscles slightly easier, whereas the thicker lube had to be "worked" by moving the dilator in and out before it was thinned enough to work the way it should

But that isn't to say that water-based lube is going to work for you. If you've solid plastic dilators then experimenting with other lubes could be worth doing to see if they help (but if you've silicone dilators don't use silicone lube as it's a solvent for solid silicone). I sometimes used to start with water-based lube for the first dilator and then use camellia oil for the second. But it's also really important to remember to use appropriate additives to water to douche with. Oil-based lubricants won't flush out with just body temperature water. You may need to dilate several times, or you may need to use a very mild detergent like baby shampoo

Expectation management is important. If your experience of dilation is pain, then part of why you can continue to experience pain because your body will just naturally tense up when you're mentally going, "I need to dilate". And that can cause issues from pain being caused by having to force a dilator between muscles that are trying to clamp together to swollen, sensitive, painful areas being forced into each other by muscle contraction. That's really difficult to tackle. Changing up the routine and 'rituals' you have around prepping to dilate can help a lot, as can using things like heat pads for period pains and cramps. If you find scents or sounds or meditation or anything else to be relaxing do that before and during dilation. That really will help a lot (I do anything and everything while actually dilating from playing games on a hand-held console to reading to scrolling TikTok. Whatever works in the moment). This is a thing that takes time and patience though. If your brain has learnt to expect pain it'll take a while for it to learn different

There's a few physical things you can try that might help. Switching down to a thinner dilator might help, but that really depends on what's causing the pain. Dilating in a different position could be the key. I don't do the lying down on my back thing. I sit mostly upright with pillows holding me up and I don't bother with the feet-together-flop-your-knees apart thing. Instead I just have my knees up at a comfortable height and apart far enough that I've access but things feel comfortable and natural. Something else could be having the dilators at body temperature before you start. Have a hot bowl of water and leave the dilators in there to warm up. When they're at a temperature that you can't really tell if they're hot or cold to the touch then they'll be at around body temperature. A dilator that's cold will cause muscles to cramp and tense, and a dilator that's too hot can cause muscles that are still healing to flinch which in turn causes pain

Hope that helps

3
u/-Kat3-
Wed Nov 30 17:56:01 2022 UTC
(1 child)

If You feel pain while dilating so how do you know how deep push dilator ? Sometime when i read posts about SRS I'm feeling weak.

5
OP
Wed Nov 30 18:07:05 2022 UTC
(0 children)

Dilation isn't "stop when you feel pain". IME the worst pain is not the final few centimeters of it when it's hitting the back wall, you can identify when it hits depth but it isn't actually the painful part. The painful part is getting past your muscles

4
u/[deleted]
Wed Nov 30 13:26:25 2022 UTC
(0 children)

Everyone’s experience and pain tolerance will be different. Mine was never painful, just uncomfortable. That said I never had any internal granulation and I know a lot of people do and that does hurt (and bleed) and will until it’s treated and/or healed.

2
u/Aggravating-Ball9552
Wed Nov 30 16:54:40 2022 UTC
(0 children)

The advice from my friend who is nearly 3 years post op is to dilate very slowly use lots of lubrication and non perfumed moisture cream. You could always try changing your leg position ie have your legs down flat.

2
u/[deleted]
Thu Dec 1 02:14:26 2022 UTC
(0 children)

I didn’t find it painful until I went up a size. Try not to sink your heels into the surface you’re on and go slow.

-2
u/HashnaFennec
Wed Nov 30 14:28:30 2022 UTC
(0 children)

I’m still pre-op so take this with a grain of salt but I’ve read that using a vibrator before dilating can help relax tight muscles. I’m pretty sure it’s a catch 22, you tension up because of pain but tensing up is causing pain.